State Parks

Tortoise_Hiker · Post by **Tortoise_Hiker** » Feb 01 2009 6:32 am

"Say it aint so Joe" Is it true that the State budget cuts include closing FIVE State Parks?

azbackpackr · Post by **azbackpackr** » Mar 23 2009 5:35 am

I've heard that Lyman Lake isn't going to close. Or, alternatively, I've also heard we will still be able to use the boat ramp but that the campground would be closed. I know it was on the long list of parks to be closed, but up here we all wondered how they could close an entire lake. And I think Game & Fish has some jurisdiction over the lake itself. And couldn't you still hike in there, even if the road was closed? I'd hate to have to carry my big tandem kayak that far, though!

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Mar 23 2009 10:09 am

dshillis wrote:Whatever it takes to keep them open...if privatizing them can do the job, fine! that's my 2 cents. i'd love to hear what others think though...maybe some good reasons why I or someone else should reconsider that stand?

When you privatize it, somebody has to make a profit. Public employees are underpaid, so they're not going to make it up on individual salaries. They're going to make it up by understaffing and skimping on maintenance, or by adding fees. Just about all the state enterprises that have been privatized in NJ have ended up costing taxpayers more in fees and tax dollars than when the state provided the services. In some cases (e.g. automatic toll collection, vehicle inspection stations), the taxpayers had to bail out failing contractors or pay out a second round of profits to new contractors.

azbackpackr · Post by **azbackpackr** » Mar 23 2009 4:36 pm

Well, there you go. Your state already has had experience with this way of doing things. Now why on Earth can't the Arizona Legislature do its homework first, by talking to the other states that have tried these programs? Seems like a big "DUH" to me!

azdesertfather · Post by **azdesertfather** » Apr 02 2009 11:14 pm

Here we go...sounds like tomorrow is D-day...

Fate of state parks to be discussed Friday

by Casey Newton - Apr. 2, 2009 04:45 PM
The Arizona Republic

The fate of eight state parks will be up for discussion Friday when the Arizona State Parks Board meets to discuss cost-cutting moves.

Like most state agencies, the parks board has seen its budget cut dramatically over the past 12 months. The agency must close a $3 million budget deficit by the end of June.

Three state parks already have closed indefinitely to allow for repairs and to save money.

Eight more state parks could shut down depending on the board's vote Friday: Homolovi Ruins, Oracle, Yuma Quartermaster Depot, Tubac Presidio, Fort Verde, Lyman Lake, Riordan Mansion and Red Rock.

Alternatives to closing the parks indefinitely include seasonal closings, reduced days or hours of operation and layoffs.

"Anything can happen," parks spokeswoman Ellen Bilbrey said.

The board meets at 11:30 a.m. at the Carnegie Center, 1101 W. Washington St., Phoenix.

azbackpackr · Post by **azbackpackr** » Apr 03 2009 7:50 am

The one I don't understand is Red Rock. Although I spend as little time as possible in Sedona, (conspicuous consumption combined with New Age nonsense both really get to me--whine whine) it has always been my understanding that was one of the most-visited parks. Any ideas why they'd close it? Is it another one with infrastructure problems?

I do hope they don't close Homolovi or Lyman. I had planned to kayak with my new kayak on Lyman this summer, and I'm scheduled to speak at a mtg. at Homolovi in mid-July.

azdesertfather · Post by **azdesertfather** » Apr 03 2009 4:01 pm

anybody heard how things turned out?

azdesertfather · Post by **azdesertfather** » Apr 05 2009 10:55 pm

State board fills $5 mil gap, won't close 8 parks

by Casey Newton - Apr. 4, 2009
The Arizona Republic

The Arizona State Parks Board will not close any more parks before July, provided lawmakers do not take any more funds from the agency, officials said Friday.

Parks Director Ken Travous told the board that his agency had successfully filled a $5 million budget gap remaining after cuts earlier this year.

The board met expenses by fund transfers, suspending and canceling grants, holding positions open and reducing operating costs.

McFarland State Historic Park, Jerome State Historic Park and the Tonto National Bridge closed earlier this year to save money and allow for repairs.

Eight more were threatened with closure as a result of lawmakers sweeping more than $36 million from parks coffers in the past year.

Travous on Friday also said the parks system could make it through the next fiscal year without closing parks by utilizing funds set aside for grants to various community projects for operating expenses.

However, everything hinges on how hard the state Legislature will hit the department.

Travous said lawmakers had threatened to take $12 million from the parks in 2010, a potentially devastating move.

"That means this board is no longer here, state parks are no longer here, and we're no longer in business as state parks," board Chairman Reese Woodling said.

The board's decision to use local grant funds for operating expenses drew some criticism from members of the public. The board has canceled dozens of grants to communities around the state, including some for projects already under construction.

"We're angry with what's happened to the . . . grants that were suspended," said Janice Miano, executive director of the Arizona Heritage Alliance.

Board member Larry Landry said canceling grants to keep parks open sent the wrong message to the Legislature.

"We're making it too easy for them to say we're going to rape and kill every other program to keep parks open," Landry said. "If they're going to take our money, they need to have consequences, too."

In related action, the board voted unanimously to endorse House Bill 2088, a measure that would provide additional temporary funding to the parks system by taking it out of funds designated for land conservation. The bill has drawn strong criticism from Democrats, whose support would be needed to pass the bill with a two-thirds majority.

The bill has passed a preliminary vote in the House.

Last month, Gov. Jan Brewer appointed a task force to develop long-term solutions for parks funding. The group is expected to issue recommendations in October.

Jeffshadows · Post by **Jeffshadows** » Apr 06 2009 8:14 am

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that this "Group" will tell Brewer just what she wants to hear: Sell the parks off to some private entity for management?

dysfunction · Post by **dysfunction** » Apr 06 2009 9:27 am

Ohhh goodie, privatized parks. Really not a huge fan of putting a private entity in charge of public resources and expecting them to actually manage them in the best interest of the people. Especially since they'd legally be required to show a profit.

Jeffshadows · Post by **Jeffshadows** » Apr 06 2009 9:53 am

Exactly; let's hope that road is not traveled...

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Apr 06 2009 10:02 am

dysfunction wrote:Really not a huge fan of putting a private entity in charge of public resources and expecting them to actually manage them in the best interest of the people. Especially since they'd legally be required to show a profit.

I emphatically agree. The public will pay more, get less, or both. Sometimes the private entities try to make up the difference with sponsoring/licensing agreements or expanded concession rights. Usually, though, its higher day use fees, higher parking fees, bigger fines for overdue parking, and chronically under-maintained facilities. Less money goes into the system, and more money comes out. The loser is us.

azdesertfather · Post by **azdesertfather** » Apr 06 2009 10:16 am

Why doesn't the state instead bring in private consultants to help give them ideas for making them more profit-making? A little creativity and business sense can go a long way

azdesertfather · Post by **azdesertfather** » May 05 2009 7:07 am

News is reporting now that the Hopi are stepping in to try to keep Homolovi open...even to the point of "offering to staff the park and to search for alternative sources of funding. The tribe has appropriated $66,000 to launch a parks and recreation program specifically to help promote the ruins."

desert spirit · Post by **desert spirit** » May 05 2009 1:43 pm

I don't understand how Catalina wouldn't be a money-maker, or at least paying its own way. It's always packed, and it seems like the campground is always full of RV's. What a shame it would be to close it.

azdesertfather · Post by **azdesertfather** » May 05 2009 2:16 pm

WOOHOO!! (Funny, they can reopen it now even though they are closed for "construction/remodeling") ;)

Tonto park to reopen weekends with help from Payson

May. 5, 2009 12:34 PM
Associated Press

One of several Arizona state parks closed due to budget cuts and failing facilities will be reopened on a part-time basis.

The Parks Department announced Tuesday that Tonto Natural Bridge State Park will be open for the May 22-25 Memorial Day weekend and the next five weeks through June.

The department had closed the park because of funding cuts and because a park building needed urgent repairs.

Officials say the town of Payson and "community partners" agreed to provide funding for the seasonal staff needed to open the park.

According to the department, the building contractor will decide how to protect the work site while the park is open.

rally_toad · Post by **rally_toad** » May 05 2009 2:22 pm

dshillis wrote:News is reporting now that the Hopi are stepping in to try to keep Homolovi open...even to the point of "offering to staff the park and to search for alternative sources of funding. The tribe has appropriated $66,000 to launch a parks and recreation program specifically to help promote the ruins."

I hope that it re-opens sometime over the summer, its one of the State Parks I want to check out.

Jeffshadows · Post by **Jeffshadows** » May 05 2009 2:25 pm

desert spirit wrote:I don't understand how Catalina wouldn't be a money-maker, or at least paying its own way. It's always packed, and it seems like the campground is always full of RV's. What a shame it would be to close it.

I'm sure the developers are already squabbling over who gets first dibs on that beautiful land, too. Makes me sick.

rally_toad · Post by **rally_toad** » May 05 2009 2:54 pm

Jeff MacE wrote:I'm sure the developers are already squabbling over who gets first dibs on that beautiful land, too. Makes me sick.

Isn't Catalina state Park technically on Forest Service Land? Could the forest service step up and start running it if the state closes it? I mean it seems as though the FS would have tons of money floating around with that Stimulus money they just got.

Jeffshadows · Post by **Jeffshadows** » May 05 2009 3:02 pm

rally_toad wrote:
Jeff MacE wrote:I'm sure the developers are already squabbling over who gets first dibs on that beautiful land, too. Makes me sick.
Isn't Catalina state Park technically on Forest Service Land? Could the forest service step up and start running it if the state closes it? I mean it seems as though the FS would have tons of money floating around with that Stimulus money they just got.

I guess we'll see. The fact that there's a huge big-box mini-mall across the highway from the park doesn't engender hope, in my opinion.

tibber · Post by **tibber** » Feb 23 2010 4:26 pm

Warren Meyer was on TV today saying he was interested in trying to get contracts to rent the parks and run them. I found this about his company: http://camprrm.com/

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