HikeArizona.COM

OK, so I encountered this again last weekend and finally decided to ask if somebody here knows the "rules".

I'm a big fan of a well-maintained trail, especially when the FS gets out there and cuts the trees which have fallen across the trail. This is good because it makes it easier to hike (rather than climbing over a 3-foot diameter log), and its environmentally friendly because it prevents hikers from establishing a new trail over or around the obstacle, damaging surrounding plants, and usually causing erosion or runoff issues.

So the question is this ... I see plenty of beautifully cut trees. And yet these occur in Wilderness Areas. The ones where no mechanized equipment can be used. So does the FS actually hike out there with chainsaws and maintain the trail under cover of darkness, or am I supposed to believe that two guys go out there with an old-school hand-saw and spend a few hours going back-and-forth to saw through the log? That seems positively ridiculous.

I've seen them with hand saws and axes on Humphreys Trail. Chain saws leave small wood shavings compared to the saw dust left by hand saws. You can tell the difference if the cut is recent.

We saw them out in the Four Peaks Wilderness
http://hikearizona.com/phoZOOM.php?ZIP=94177
...okay, maybe not

Nice photo BTW, that guy on the front left resembles a young chumley!

Seriously though I've seen them out with those huge saws somewhere, but the teeth didn't seem that deep.

chumley wrote:so I encountered this again last weekend

Yea, me too in from the Pine TH on the Pine Canyon TR#26. I have always assumed they use both hand saws and chain saws with certain guidelines applying depending on the wetness/dryness of the area to be maintenanced .

Old School all the way http://www.hikearizona.com/phoZOOM.php?ZIP=102947

The other guy had an axe. We borrowed this from the girl

joe bartels wrote:Nice photo BTW, that guy on the front left resembles a young chumley!

young chumley?? I look like that now. Except my hair is naturally blonde, and I've got bigger guns. :wlift:

I know you can not use a chain saw in fighting a fire in a Wilderness area..... Got that info first hand from fire fighter trainers.....

rlrjamy wrote:Old School all the way http://www.hikearizona.com/phoZOOM.php?ZIP=102947

The other guy had an axe. We borrowed this from the girl

The comment from the photo is classic:

There were a couple FS employees going up to cut some stuff... and should be done by Fall.

Seems about right ;)

joe bartels wrote:We saw them out in the Four Peaks Wilderness

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rlrjamy wrote:Old School all the way http://www.hikearizona.com/phoZOOM.php?ZIP=102947

The other guy had an axe. We borrowed this from the girl

Misery whips are much less work than the axe, aren't they

I had a close buddy who was a wilderness firefighter who maintained trails in the off season. They DID use misery whips and other hand tools to fell/clear even very large trees - going as far as hiking that stuff in and out of areas more than 20 miles from the nearest road access (he mostly worked in Montana). He had a video of he and another fire fighter removing a tree while it was on fire. It was pretty incredible. Of course, he was a sexy beast from all that hard work and bounded about on the trail in a way that made me feel like a lead balloon with chains on my feet.

Good thing I'm not into goody two-shoes

Must depend on the area, some wilderness's have a chainsaw crew, others must be non mechanized removal only. Same probably applys to hotshots.

All I know is Arizona is no chainsaws at least for the fighting of the wildfires. Like the Willow fire they had to wait till it got to none wilderness before they could bring on the equipment (my sister worked that fire for dispatch and confirmed the rules for me at least for AZ wildfires) ..... And there is a certain guideline for wildernesses but each Wilderness areas can adapt to their areas.... wilderness.net has general guide lines but sends you to each individual wilderness for special instructions like on how many a group can be in that area as well as how long can camp out in each wilderness....

In response to nonot:
Which wilderness allows chainsaw crews in non life threating circumstances?

A chain saw in a wilderness would be bad ju ju. It is possible, if the managing agency does a mini environmental assessment or the like, but pretty unlikely. I'm told if there is a fire going on they can use certain mechanized equipment, but don't have that authoritatively. More likely there are volunteers or paid crews in there with saws and lopers. The volunteer community is smaller than the hiking community, but there are people crazy enough to do it.

Sredfield wrote:More likely there are volunteers or paid crews in there with saws and lopers. The volunteer community is smaller than the hiking community, but there are people crazy enough to do it.

Like you, here is another one of the "good guys" that is committed to do it! ---> http://www.hikearizona.com/dex2/profile.php?u=12247

I know a small group of people that go out regularly in the Catalinas and use cross-cut saws on the trails there. I had an interesting encounter in the Mazatzals this April: (excerpt from my website)

"I checked out Windsor Seep and found a couple of small pools. At the junction, there was a backpack hung in a tree, but no one answered when I called hello. I took a snack break and noticed a saw and some branch trimmers. The owner had not come back by the time I was done with my break, so I left a note thanking them for doing trailwork out here. I continued on to traverse the slopes of Mazatzal Peak. The views to the west were spectacular and I saw a lake in the distance. This is my first time in this part of the state and the geology here is incredible. I came upon the owner of the backpack and told him about the note I left for him. I said that I was out here hiking the Arizona Trail. “You must be Sirena” he said, “I used to follow your hike last year, but I haven’t checked it in a while.” Crazy. Out in the middle of nowhere. I asked him what his name was and he said I could call him the Lone Stranger. Okay…as we talked, it came out that the reason he wished to remain anonymous is that he was out here using a chainsaw to cut all the downed trees. He had left the hand tools as decoys. You may think, what’s wrong with that? All this time I’ve been talking about how bad the trail is and how there are downed trees all over the bad parts of the trail up ahead. Wouldn’t it be good to get rid of them? Well, since the Mazatzal is a wilderness, no chainsaws are allowed. All trees must be cut with a cross-cut saw powered by two people and sweat. He had stashed the chainsaw when he saw me come up on the trail, and he was happy to see that I was not a forest ranger. I had a nice visit with the Lone Stranger, who did finally tell me his name, but I’ll never tell. (when I later told my mother about this meeting, she was horrified that I had met some guy in the middle of nowhere that knew who I was that had a chainsaw and wouldn’t tell me his name)"

sirena wrote: (when I later told my mother about this meeting, she was horrified that I had met some guy in the middle of nowhere that knew who I was that had a chainsaw and wouldn’t tell me his name)"

Those are the things which terrify my mother as well. Convincing her that's it not those guys but the ones who travel in groups and would rather chop down a living tree for wood for their bonfire before they'd do an ounce of trail maintenance is just not worth the breath. Sounds like a perfectly wonderful encounter!

It's parents' job to worry.