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We are planning a backpacking trip to the Grand Canyon. Since this is a first trip, any helpful info would be nice. We are debating either Bright Angel or Kaibab Trail and camping at Phantom Ranch. What is the water situation, permits, ect. We are planning for the end of Sept, too hot? When is the best time to go, weather, people (less people prefered). Any suggestions would be great!

Have you read ck_1's article Grand Canyon - Beginners Guide? http://hikearizona.com/article.php?ID=17
September Permits were issued in May. You can try for a Permit but I don't expect you will have much luck at this point. October Permits were issued June 1. November Permit Applications go in on July 1.

I strongly recommend Scott Thybony's Book - The Official Guide to Hiking the Grand Canyon http://hikearizona.com/books.php?REV=1&ID=60&STu=

Down South Kaibab to Bright Angel Campground, then out on Bright Angel Trail is a good choice for a first-time backpack. You (usually) have water available on Bright Angel Trail at Indian Gardens, 3 mile Resthouse and 1 1/2 mile Resthouse.

Al_HikesAZ wrote:September Permits were issued in May. You can try for a Permit but I don't expect you will have much luck at this point. October Permits were issued June 1. November Permit Applications go in on July 1.

I knew we would need permits. I had this conversation with my brother lastnight. He swore up and down that the only permit that we would need would be to camp. What is the weather like in November? I don't mind cold, but concerned with weight factor. Maybe we can plan for next year. Thank you for the info.

Various temps are listed in the article. You can get each months annual stat for the Inner Gorge by going to this page and click on "Weather".

If you're looking for tranquility forget the Kaibab and Bright Angel trails all together.

Yeah, you WILL need that permit to camp. You do not need a permit to dayhike.

Watch the various meetup groups, see if you can get in on a trip. I will be posting my Oct trip soon on one or two of the meetup groups. I have a permit for Boucher-Hermit, Oct 22-26. (Actually first night is not IN the canyon.) I will be posting it, but Boucher is quite a bit harder trail than BA, SK, etc., and really not a trip for first time Canyon hikers.

A good guidebook to get you started is the Falcon Guide: Hiking Grand Canyon National Park, by Ron Adkison. You also must know the areas, which are numbered, and which are separated into Corridor, Threshold, Primitive and Wild. When you put in for your permit, you have to say specifically which numbered area your campsite will be in each night. Some areas require you to camp in a backpacker campground, other areas do not. For a map that shows these coded numbers, one good one is: Trails Illustrated Grand Canyon National Park. There is more info on the park backcountry website, and also you can call and talk to the rangers. Instructions for calling the rangers is on the website as well. Have a list of questions written down before you call. You can ask most of the questions on HAZ first, though.

Another word of advice: If you are really serious about starting Canyon hiking, buy a fax machine. (My kids thought I had gone nuts when I came home with one a few years ago! "Mom! What do you need a fax machine for?" ) Until the Park switches over to internet applications (it's like waiting for Godot...never happens) fax is best method to get a permit.

azbackpackr wrote:Another word of advice: If you are really serious about starting Canyon hiking, buy a fax machine. (My kids thought I had gone nuts when I came home with one a few years ago! "Mom! What do you need a fax machine for?" ) Until the Park switches over to internet applications (it's like waiting for Godot...never happens) fax is best method to get a permit.

LOL You would think the popularity of the Grand Canyon and the money they make they could at least get into the times and use email or something. I bet they still use cans and string to make calls.

I think we will be rescheduling for next year to prepare ourselves a little more. Thank you again to all for the info. It will be very useful.

kevinweitzel75 wrote:You would think the popularity of the Grand Canyon and the money they make they could at least get into the times and use email or something. I bet they still use cans and string to make calls.

They just yell and use mule mail

I think we will be rescheduling for next year to prepare ourselves a little more. Thank you again to all for the info. It will be very useful.

They are working on a computerized reservation system. I understand it is in beta. But the options can be overwhelming which is why they rely on the Rangers to evaluate and approve permits. If they received emails they would just have to print them anyway to work off of the printouts. They have some tricks with paper colors that they use on the fax machine for month end. When we got our approved Permits for October, their comments on the permit made it obvious that they really didn't know what we were doing and were guessing at our hiking itinerary to get to the campsites we requested - and they sort of guessed wrong. And on some permits they send the "Did you know you could die?" questionnaire before they approve the permit.

I suggest going up for some dayhikes in October, November, March or April. Camp at Mather. Get to know the area. Stop in at BCO in the afternoon and talk with the Rangers. There is a lot of hiking you can do without needing a BackCountry Permit. Sometimes you can check in at the desk at Bright Angel Lodge and snag a cancellation at the Phantom Ranch Dormitory. And if you expect to go up enough times, buy an Annual Park pass.

A PASS? I don't need no stinkin' pass! I just drive in for free--before 8 a.m!

For what it's worth - the GC is fantastic in the winter. If you can deal with colder conditions on the trail, it seldom gets below freezing at Phantom Ranch. There are no where near as many people on the trails, and it's much easier to get camping permits. I did the S. Kaibab-Bright Angel loop in January, with snow all over the top of the trails. It was blissful and fun - and all we really needed in terms of winter gear were warm clothes and some instep cleats or yacktrax for our shoes.

Also - if you are a strong hiker already, Horseshoe Mesa is a good introduction. There is no easily available water at the campground on the mesa, but the views are tops, and it's a fairly short hike up and down from the rim.

Good luck on a permit. I applied for 2 different dates in October on June 1 and didn't get either one of them. But back to your question. The greatest first timer trip I think is down South Kiabab to Phantom Ranch for the first night. Stay at Bright Angel Campground. Then for day two go up Bright Angel trail to Indian Gardens for the second night and then hike out the next day.

azbackpackr wrote:A PASS? I don't need no stinkin' pass! I just drive in for free--before 8 a.m!

Are you serious? You can get in for free before 8am? I find that hard to believe.

true, but thought it was 5am

I think they start collecting before 8am(but not sure when), but they definitely don't at 415am...430am was when we caught the shuttle last month.

Of course there's the back country bypass route and I've been told a certain ranger has been known to be bribed with double stuff oreos too ;)

I do pay for my backpacking permit. I really don't purposely get into the park for free, but I always camp right outside the park gates in the NF so of course I am through the gate before whatever time it is. Every time I leave I am aware I have no thingy on my rear view mirror, so I slow down at the gate on the way out, prepared to pay, but they have never stopped me. I looked on the Park website and could not find any mention of when they start personning the booth.

Similarly, we did not pay to pass the Havasupai "toll booth" highway robbery station out there on the road to South Bass trail because we passed it late in the afternoon both coming and going, and the gatekeepers had already departed.

I think the satellite maps of bypass routes have lessened that guys opportunity.

azbackpackr wrote:I do pay for my backpacking permit. I really don't purposely get into the park for free, but I always camp right outside the park gates in the NF so of course I am through the gate before whatever time it is. Every time I leave I am aware I have no thingy on my rear view mirror, so I slow down at the gate on the way out, prepared to pay, but they have never stopped me. I looked on the Park website and could not find any mention of when they start personning the booth.

FWIW, it seems they start manning the booths around 6 AM. I have been going in weekly since the end of June and if I get there before the attendants, there is usually a sign that says something to the effect of "Booth is not manned at this time, go on in and enjoy your day."

Since mid July I have not had to worry...on my 62nd birthday I purchased a lifetime National Park Senior Citzens Pass for $10, which is the bargain of all bargains. Now I just present that and say "re-entry" so that they don't give me the park information brochure. The pass is good for me and anyone in my vehicle.

6 a.m.? I had thought it was more like 7 a.m.

Lucky you, live so close by!

There are a lot of people who don't become infected by Canyon love, Canyon lore, Canyon history and geology, Canyon addiction. That is fine with me. Each to his own.