Border Fence Blocks Bear Migration

[kingsnake]

Don't know how many people get the New York Times, but thought you might also find this interesting: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/scien ... -says.html

[Thoreau]

NY Times failsauce, but I expect that from the media.

Considering the VAST majority of the border 'fence' is nothing but vehicle barriers made of railroad ties (not exactly a bear obstacle (or an obstacle to anything else really)) or absolutely nothing, I'm gonna call BS on their report.


http://americanpatrol.com/ABP/SURVEYS/B ... TUS_W.html

http://americanpatrol.com/ABP/SURVEYS/B ... _East.html

Example of a vehicle barrier (left) meeting up with a more substantial segment of fence (which actually would have an effect on bears if more of it existed). Photo taken just outside of Hereford.

http://xanthotech.com/gallery/v/BorderR ... 4.jpg.html

Of course, if the fence is ever actually built to the spec that the American taxpayer has been paying for, I don't see how it wouldn't affect wildlife in some meaningful way. For better or worse.

[kingsnake]

I posted it because I found it interesting, not as a platform for the immigration debate.

[Thoreau]

I don't recall mentioning the immigration issue. My entire response is still focused on the claim of the 'fence' stopping bears from getting through.

[autumnstars]

A lot of the impact on animal migration depends on where, exactly, the more substantial portions of the fence are placed. If you block off the one or two corridors the species has always used, in the only suitable habitat area for miles, that will have a strong impact in stopping migration. Most animals aren't as flexible as humans in their behavior, and bears aren't going to suddenly start crossing in the middle of the desert just because that's where the fence is least strong.

[DarthStiller]

Perhaps some educational reading is in order on how migrations can be affected by all kinds of manmade infrastructure...

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/ ... ammen-text

[Jim]

Walls have long history of failing. It's an example of arrogance and looking for easy fixes that have lead us to believe erecting one will solve any of our border issues. Affects on wildlife are just one example of their negative consequences. It didn't work then, won't work now, not if there is something worth getting to.
Ancient example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes
Slightly modern example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall

[azhiker96]

The article also mentions urban sprawl and highways having a negative impact on the bears.

My first thought on the article was "Bears migrate?" I suppose a bear could carry quite a few more coconuts than a pair of English swallows which could add to an old ongoing debate.

[chumley]

Yeah I think that the thread subject could simply be "Fences Block Migration". It doesn't matter if it's bears, mountain lions, jaguars, elk, etc.

And while you might not have intended to start a discussion on immigration, I think it's naive of you to post anything that starts with "border fence" and think that immigration won't be a part of the discussion. That's what a border fence is proposed/built for. It's not built for bears.

[Jim]

Ban the Bear! End the looming threat of the Bear destroying us all!

[Thoreau]

Since the topic has gone into the immigration side of the fence anyway, I might as well toss this one in.

Jim: You're right that there are many examples of fences/walls failing, or even having unintended consequences. There are also cases of it working very well. National Geographic's show 'Border Wars' actually makes frequent mention of how effective the stretch of fence has been in the area of Nogales, AZ with regards to illegal immigration, and more importantly, drug running. The California sections have also been quite effective over the last few years in the areas where, again, they are actual fences and not just railroad tracks made to look like Normandy beach.

That said, I don't think anyone is crazy enough (okay, some are...) to believe that it's the end-all solution. You're 110% right that the attraction has to be eliminated for any other ideas to stand even a chance. Unfortunately, an economy in distress, coupled with the promise of dirt-cheap labor means that the illegal immigration part won't go away easily, and the US's love of drugs isn't going to stop the worst of the problem either.

[Thoreau]

Just another note to add to my above post. It is often argued that the border crossers that don't go through the fenced/walled areas just go through elsewhere, thus making the fences and walls pointless. Fortunately value is still there in the fact that it causes the paths to funnel into easier-to-patrol and manage areas (from the US BP perspective anyway) allowing resources to be concentrated and more effective vs. spread out and pointless. It's still far from perfect, but it's at least a start while Washington continues to waste time and money on their lunacy.

[Tough_Boots]

So we should support bear migration but not human migration? What if Mexican bears cross the border and take American bears' jobs? How come bears don't need passports? Why do we support the free movement of animals (and corporations) but not the free movement of people? This is all lunacy!

[Thoreau]

Checks the 'bears-carrying-drugs' counter... Yep, still at 0.

[outdoor_lover]

@All

[Tough_Boots]

What about Mexican bears breaking into my home and stealing my honey?

[Thoreau]

Shouldn't be a problem if your avatar is any indicator!

[Tough_Boots]

@Thoreau
That's a Canadian bear. For some reason they aren't a problem.

[DarthStiller]

Checks the 'bears-carrying-drugs' counter... Yep, still at 0.

http://www.rockdalecitizen.com/news/201 ... dealing-n/

[azhiker96]

So here's my thought. If we brought the 91K troops back from Afghanistan and stationed them along the 1,970 mile southern border we could have one soldier about every 115 feet. Considering we already have quite a bit of fence the soldiers might be able to join hands and then we'd have a big game of red rover. I doubt the drug smugglers could break through the US military.

Bears could be frisked for drugs and then given a honey pot and passage to the 100 acre wood.