Knat Season

[montezumawell]

Yep. It's Knat Season once again. The dreaded knats are BAAACK! They hit the ground biting today, April 8, here near Montezuma Well. And, MAN, were they ever BITING!

I slopped on the Skin So Soft and it kept them at bay except for the parts where I forgot.
BLAM--KNAT BITE! They got the tops of both feet first. I forgot to swab Skin So Soft over the feet and that was a BIG mistake.

As usual when they swarn out of their hiding places, the knats have patience. They actually swarn around my face and WAIT until the Skin So Soft's power reduces to a level where they can penetrate directly to the eyes, nose and mouth. What few aren't having fun there go into the ears.
The rest entertain themselves trying to bite the hairline, the neckline or whatever else there is.

Personally, neither of us thinks Avon's Skin So Soft is anything more than an expensive placebo.
We buy it and use it. Mostly for psychological reasons. We eat garlic, too. We call down curses upon the knats as well. Sticking long, big pins through large dolls of knats has been rumored to help.

Geeeze....when the knats come, what CAN you do?

Any advice is truly appreciated by two people who are at their wit's end on knats!

J&S

[mttgilbert]

Jungle Juice (or whatever it's called) from REI. Now that stuff works! That is of course if you can get over the smell of all those chemicals. In really thick bug country I wear long clothes and take along a net that goes over my hat and covers my face and neck. I made mine but I think they are available at stores. You can also soak your clothes in some of the non-oil based bug repellents (but make sure you check the manufacturers guidlines first). I have also heard that smoking repells the bugs (of course it might repel some of your friends too.)

[montezumawell]

Thanks! We do both have the mesh pullovers and we do both wear long sleeves and long pants. Susun even wears lightweight cotton gloves! I tried them but couldn't hack it. We haven't tried REI's juice. We will! We won't smoke because of bugs. Sorry. We might FUME because of bugs but we won't smoke.

As always, for us anyway, it comes back to fundamental lifestyle stuff. Stay or go. Stay and fight bugs or get outta Dodge until the bugs go into remission.

Between the heat, the last few year's drought and the blasted bugs, we've chosen to head to Utah or points North West. This year, we gonna hope the Blue Ridge vicinity keeps us close but if the Forests heat up and close again, we're outta here for Rogue River Country in SW Oregon.

Maybe we should actually thank the bugs for getting us "on the road again."

J&S

PS--Here's Susun in her "bug garb" crossing Beaver Creek April 6 on a jaunt up to the top of the Rim on the Bell Trail.

[mttgilbert]

Another thing to thank the bugs for; they keep the less dedicated away from the trails!

Solitude (being akin to silence) is golden.

[joebartels]

Jungle Juice (or whatever it's called) from REI. Now that stuff works! That is of course if you can get over the smell of all those chemicals.

over the years I've heard how wonderfull this stuff was so I just had to look into it myself!

For the past two years I've used Repel 100 which is 95% DEET
It smells like REAL cheap car freshener but it nearly works like a glass shield

Jungle Juice "Plus" is
17.5% DEET (the bottle says 16.6% DEET, 0.9% other isomers)
5% DEET activator
2.5% fly and gnat repellent
(taken from the REI site)
2 oz Lotion - $4.50

REI also makes Jungle Juice 100
which is the same as Repel 100
95% DEET
5% other Isomers
2 oz Spray - $4.50
I belive I paid about $4 for the Repel 100 and it's only 1oz

anyhow I'm curious if all the holler is about Jungle Juice 100 or Jungle Juice Plus
is that 2.5% fly and gnat repellent the kicker, and what is it, citronella?

I'm gonna give it a try but I'll definitely be ready with the 100 just incase

[fatoldsun]

I don't put anything on my skin that includes laboratory-created repellents or insecticides. They're not only unnatural but they can also cause unforeseen complications to your skin and who-knows-what-else in the future. I look at insects as part of the whole of nature when I hike and have never been annoyed by them. I approach going into nature not as an adversary but as a friend. I believe wearing man-made insect repellents immediately make me an adversary to nature because they cause harm not only to the insects but also to me while wearing them. When you are sensed as adversarial then you are subject to being attacked by insects (or any animal for that matter). I use a lotion that I picked up in Kauai' that is made out of 100% natural oils and essences. It's primary purpose is protection and moisturization of the skin when I'm outdoors and a nice side-affect is that bugs don't mess with me either (and NO it does not contain coconut oil which attracts insects).

[GeorgAZ]

Perhaps unlike some of you,I am a gnat/mosquito buffet! They LOVE me+ I have tried everything.I welt and scar,especially from the no-see-ums.I think Montezuma's Well and I must have appealing blood/sweat/tears, etc.,because it seems we are the feast! My friends like to hike with me,as I am the bug decoy!

[Nighthiker]

I can't remember the name of it but I got it from Trader Joe's. It kept the bugs away but one night I woke up with two coati-mundi's licking me on the face.

[azhiker96]

With the spring rains in Oklahoma came the hatching of the buffalo gnats. Pesky little critters that raise welts where they bite. The best repellant though was vanilla extract. It worked great and didn't make you smell like a petroleum processing plant. The only downside was the mosquitoes aren't affected by vanilla extract. I don't know if it's effective against the Arizona gnats but it's probably worth a try, especially when you can get a quart of it in Nogales for about 5 bucks.

[mttgilbert]

anyhow I'm curious if all the holler is about Jungle Juice 100 or Jungle Juice Plus
is that 2.5% fly and gnat repellent the kicker, and what is it, citronella?

I had never noticed there was more than one kind, but I just pulled out my little bottle and its the 100. I have no idea what the 2.5% is but I sent the guys at REI an email so I'll let you know when I find out.

On an aside, I camped at Peter's Cave http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=233 this weekend. There is quite a bit of water there (so hike it soon) and the bugs were really thick. Unfortunately I forgot my bug spray (I really didn't expect to see so much water) but miraculously came away with very few bug bites.

[MaryPhyl]

I have a bug net I bought for an east coast hike--never needed it so I have never used it. I think it cost about 2 or 3 dollars. I think you would want to wear it over a hat to keep it off of your face. I got it here in Flagstaff somewhere I think.

[mttgilbert]

anyhow I'm curious if all the holler is about Jungle Juice 100 or Jungle Juice Plusis that 2.5% fly and gnat repellent the kicker, and what is it, citronella?

REI finally responded and told me that fly and gnat repellant is di-n/propylisocinchomeronate.
I know that doesn't help, sorry, at least now we know what it is.

[joebartels]

it helps if you go here

http://www.viha.ca/mho/Environment/west ... erepel.pdf

read the bottom of page 3

say's the combination of that with DEET has not proven to be any more effective
& basically you're just exposing yourself to more chemicals

interesting!

thx matt!

[mttgilbert]

That site was still kind of ambiguous. It said that sprays with DEET and the di-n-poly-whatevers are not shown to be effective against mosquitos, but its billed as a fly and gnat repellent. No word on fly and gnat effectiveness, but I think all the DEET is probably enough. The site listed below actually says that high concentrations of DEET (over 30%) were unneccesary and could even be harmful.
I looked at several sites and they all said about the same thing...
I found this one to have the most general information regarding repellants:
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/pmra-arla/englis ... deet-e.pdf