A.T.V.s vs. BLM

[FOTG]

I could see something, like, this happening in AZ. Not against O.R.V.s but not really seeing their side of the story on this one..

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57909 ... csp?page=1

[SpiderLegs]

Was starting to see this type of thing when I lived in Idaho as well. People that had access to roads and camping spots being shut out of places they had been using for decades. Couple of friends were really fired up that the Feds were putting in berms to cut off access to dispersed camping sites. Part of the reason they enjoyed camping was to get away from it all, not be corralled into a designated campground and rubbing shoulders with your neighbors.

It's tough, I'm all for keeping ATV's out of most places. Not very often have I seen a responsible ATV rider out on a trail, but sure that they are out there. But on the flipside I had friends that were lifelong hunters and getting into their late 60's and 70's. They could not hike in and out like they used to and an ATV helped them get to their hunting spot.

[Alston_Neal]

Interesting link I saw.
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/cliv ... ion-sites/

[chumley]

@Alston Neal
Not sure how the sacred Navajo sites come into this. It's not Navajo land. It's federal BLM land. But then that opens up the whole can of worms that Snowbowl went through again. Some tough issues to deal with.

But I'd be careful using Native Americans as part of your logical argument for having the federal government administer land.

[FOTG]

http://www.friendsofcedarmesa.org/recap ... v-protest/

A really good write up from someone who observed event, I think they did a great job of giving a partial look at event, despite fact they have a connection to piles of rocks in canyon etc..but they give a pretty fair synopsis of weekend..

I am just becoming a little concerned with this new trend of American citizens using assault rifles and civil disobedience to accomplish there means, ie: ranching saga and now this..strange times..one day Uncle Sam might just call their bluffs

[big_load]

No surprise that this comes out from the US capitol of ruins looting.

[FOTG]

@big_load

I thought that was the Supes? Some people are just so bold about it to..

http://hikearizona.com/photo=414239

[big_load]

@friendofThundergod
Awesome find!

[Sredfield]

I am just becoming a little concerned with this new trend of American citizens using assault rifles and civil disobedience to accomplish there means, ie: ranching saga and now this..strange times..one day Uncle Sam might just call their bluffs

I fully agree. I believe the BLM was correct in not risking a "Waco" situation, and standing down at the Bundy affair. But where does it stop? Would this be tolerated in an urban environment? What would any other law enforcement entity do if confronted similarly with armed resistors? '
This is not healthy at all, and probably won't end well.

[rwstorm]

I support the BLM in these matters.

[AZLumberjack]

All one has to do is look at the damage done to the environment by the thoughtless contingent of ATV riders. Although there are some riders who cannot be associated with those who are doing the damage, it still ends up collectively as "those ATV riders". Box Canyon in the Florence area, Hewitt Station Road in Queen Valley area, Montana Mountain and even some remote areas along Peralta Road are being littered as a result of the thoughtless users of these trails.

This year I trailered my ATV back to Minnesota where ATV usage is more heavily restricted but public trails aren't a total wasteland like some I have witnessed in the desert SW. The desert ecosystem is too slow to recover from the damages that can be wrought by those who thoughtlessly trample it's fragile vegetation, and historical sites are lost forever :SB:

[FOTG]

@Sredfield

You are very right, its a slippery slope...so what happens when a group of five armed protesters take over a building in down town Phoenix...when does civil disobedience become treason or terrorism?

[chumley]

@friendofThundergod

A valid question. Similarly, those on the other side ask what happens when the government runs amok with power and does things covertly that are illegal, immoral, and unconstitutional. What recourse do the American People have?

Monday night, Stephen Colbert asked Glenn Greenwald if he’s trying to “undermine the confidence of the American people in their own government.”

“When they’re doing things that deserve to have confidence in their actions undermined, yeah, it is a good idea for that to be revealed,” Greenwald said.

If you ask me, people on both sides have some views that can easily result in very unpleasant outcomes.

[FOTG]

covertly that are illegal, immoral, and unconstitutional

Certainly true, and probably certainly goes on, however, been around world three time now, and have yet to find a better country :SB:

National Anthem playing in back ground..

[Sredfield]

those on the other side ask what happens when the government runs amok with power and does things covertly that are illegal, immoral, and unconstitutional. What recourse do the American People have?

Acknowledging its imperfection, I submit that the original plan was that the courts are to handle this.

[SuperstitionGuy]

Acknowledging its imperfection, I submit that the original plan was that the courts are to handle this.

Preferably courts that aren't filled with politically appointed hacks!