Very bad overgrowth in the Mazatzal

[Wyoming]

Hi all,

I just walked from Utah to Rt 87. I wanted to point out (and this may be common knowledge to all but me) that the overgrowth in the Mazatzal is bad. REALLY BAD.

For anyone hiking this wilderness there will be miles (maybe 10?) of serious overgrowth. The trail is close to lost at many times and much of the overgrowth is plants with thorns. So one has to spend many hours pushing through brush that is going to scratch and cut bare skin. Be prepared for that.

Having hiked in other parts of the Mazatzal before I was used to the complete lack of trail maintenance on the remote seldom traveled trails. But I did not really expect this on the signature trail the AZT. But it is clear that there has been no meaningful or substantial trial work performed south of LF Ranch until one is well out of the wilderness and approaching Rt 87 for many years if not a decade or more.

Trail tread is also gone in many places with washouts and holes, erosion has wiped out much of the trail cuts in sidehills and there are lots of old blowdowns over the trail.

I would guess that another year or two will result in some areas of there being essentially no trail left at all due to the overgrowth. It is clearly a very hard place to get people to do trail maintenance due to accessibility issues. One cannot due this work on weekends as it requires at least 1 day each in and out and then one too several days spent working. A huge task but one that is going to be required pretty soon.

Wyo

[Farwalker]

I ran into Shawn Redfield at the Pine Supermarket just before the trail work crew event at Pine Trailhead and he mentioned that they are planning a trail maintenance job in this winter or coming spring for the Mazatzal Wilderness area. Might be a heck of a work "party". ;^)

[Tough_Boots]

@Farwalker

the easiest solution would be to just get friendofThundergod to stop tossing acacia and manzanita seeds around everywhere he goes.

[Sredfield]

@Farwalker
May we assume you survived the Mazatzals, or are you posting from the business center at LF Ranch?

[Farwalker]

Nope, I'm also off trail. I was just about to descend to LF Ranch and I got a message on the InReach that a family emergency requires my attention. I backtracked out to Strawberry where my husband picked me up. In a week I'll be back on trail SOBO but closer to home since I'll still need to be available. A close family member in Tucson had a stroke and went right into dementia and we are getting care and making decisions.
If I'm not on the CDT next spring I will pick up where I left off (Hardscrabble Mesa) southbound on the AZT. This is the first time in years that I've had a thru hike interrupted so I've been lucky and I am personally very pleased/happy with what I've gotten done. If nothing else thru hiking teaches one to be very flexible with things in life. The trail is gorgeous and for the most part well marked and treaded. From what I've read the Mazzies have been a tough section since the fires, but that happens on a lot of trails. I did all of Oregon PCT SOBO this past June and there was many miles of dead and down and hot open areas with less water resources, and it was over a hundred degrees there also, so tough conditions with new over growth on long trails is not unusual. I did just fine on that but it's darn slow, tedious going. In fact I just heard from a friend hiking in Idaho that he's bailing due to so many fire closures it's impossible for him to keep going on his hike also, which was how many ended their PCT thru hikes this year too. On thru hikes you've got to be prepared for anything, especially things beyond your control.

[BakedAlaskan]

I'll just add a few of my comments to the discussion......

Wyoming is correct in his statement. The area he spoke of is very dense, and difficult to follow. The relay of information on trail conditions by those who are actually hiking the trail is essential for planning trail maintenance and work crews. I am happy to say I had the opportunity to help with the AZT Trail Crew on the Pine switchback project in early October.

I recently got off the trail at Sunflower, which basically finished my Southbound hike for this year. The lack of available water was the main reason, as well as above average temperatures near the Roosevelt Lk. area. I was told it was 10 - 15 degrees warmer than average for the time of year, upper 90's, low 100's at the lower elevations.

Thundergod.... I don't think Wyoming's post was a complaint, he was relaying information to other trail users, in which Forums are the established norm for doing so. I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the 2 runners attempting to set a speed record this fall. I see the AZT Association eNews had urged people to stage water for Trepa, after his partner, Foote had to return to Australia. I'm thinking you would have the same comments for him also.......Being faint of heart and all, to just suck it up. And personally, I think the Association should not have printed that request. I was averaging 27 miles a day on my hike.....carrying a gallon jug of water in my hand, and another gallon in my pack. Perhaps I should have posted that I was running the trail, and then water would be laid out ahead of me.

Farwalker.....For the brief time we spoke, I was not complaining about anything.....I said it was disheartening to be hopeful and anticipate a tank having water in it, and upon arrival to see a shallow mud puddle. I then mentioned my travels on the CDT in New Mexico, the water sources were mostly reliable, but not very refreshing when the temperature of the water was so warm from sitting in the 105 degree heat. As for Weber creek, I had 3 quarts of water, and, as you mentioned, 8 miles to Pine. There was also several ice cold beers waiting for me at THAT Brewery. A very strong motivator for some hikers, such as myself. And the temperature was 84 degrees, just to clarify that comment. I hope your family member is recovering as best as possible. Safe travels on the remainder of your hike.

[Tough_Boots]

I think all the feedback about the trails is extremely useful and whether or not it seems like it, the locals are definitely taking notes. Though I also think that if you come onto a forum full of Arizona hikers and complain about trail conditions, water scarcity, and ruggedness-- you're gonna get teased a little bit. Its all part of Arizona's unique charm. The proper response to catclaw in Arizona is laughter ;)

[The_Eagle]

@Tough_Boots
Well said on all points!

[Sredfield]

Just FYI, the Regional Steward and other ATA bureaucrats are planning a trip from Barnhardt TH to LF Ranch/Doll Baby Nov 2-5, weather permitting, to assess and plan for crews. Anyone is welcome, PM for details.

[Mad Science]

@Wyoming
Hi Wyoming,

First, thank you for updating the water report for the dry northern 400 miles of trail. It was a big help.

Second, people who haven't been through that section just don't get how bad it is. I really think, if something isn't done soon, the AZT can no longer be considered a continuous, complete trail from Utah to Mexico--it is that bad. I personally don't mind cross-country travel and making my own route, but it is slower and requires more food and water. When you have something called a trail that turns out to be route finding and bushwacking, you have a dangerous situation. Someone is going to die on that stretch in the next two years if nothing is done.

I'm happy to go out and help work on it.

Well wishes,

Mad Science

P.S.
(And it isn't a seasonal issue as some have alluded to. Nobos in spring found it to be, unequivocally, the worst part of the AZT--the 3 miles north and 15 miles south of LF Ranch).

[Farwalker]

I agree with the above, MS makes a very good point. How much food and water can YOU carry before its just not practicle/doable or even fun to hike a "trail" that's not really a trail but a bunch of trails linked with proposed routes? The Hayduke is a route with quite a few logistical resupply and water issues but the promoters make sure everyone knows that you definitely better have your planning down good and be experienced in bushwacking and basic survival skills as that route is both difficult and remote.
Having hiked the AZT now in its entirety I feel there is a huge disconnect in the people who did it years ago and those doing it now. Was there more water a decade ago? Was the trail maintained more or has the recent weather pattern caused more overgrowth and erosion than normal? Maybe it's both. And I think the REALITY of this hike is that like many other trails it was never meant to be thru hiked.....thru hiking is a recent phenomenon folks....very few people before hiking become more popular attempted thru hikes of long trails. I was the second woman to solo the Continental Divide SOBO in 1981. And I STILL get the same reactions now that I got then, "Your a Woman and ALONE?" "Aren't you afraid of lions, bears, etc."..ad nauseum.
Thru hiking was and remains something most hikers don't do. It started on the AT and spread to the other trails, thru hiking became a goal as extreme sports have become more popular to the masses. This is my OPINION so keep your flames to yourselves. I've been hiking for over 50 years in the USA and this is my observation.
Now back to the AZT. People in the organization are aware of the dangers that exist in attempting a thru hike of this magnitude. This is NOT a hike for soft, inexperienced people, and may not even be a hike some experienced folks should do.
It's just not talked about enough, the water issue, the realities of the rocks the climbs the overgrowth and the logistics and the fact that some years might be more difficult than others. I've worked on and promoted this trail for 33 years and I've never pulled my punches when letting people know the difficulty of this route and the trails. I PERSONALLY felt that the status of National Scenic Trail was granted too soon, the trail was not completed then and still lacks completion as a "trail". People here will take umbrage to this but I will again state this is my personal opinion.
Alaska, I've never met anyone who in a desert situation didn't stop and fill their belly with water AT water no matter how much they are carrying. Just sayin.....

[big_load]

Farwalker touched on a few points I've been pondering for a while. I've been following this discussion from the beginning, and from the beginning I've wondered why nobody has asked the following: how much did the conditions this year depart from the norm in that area? And do visitors understand the devastation wrought by the 2004 Willow Fire, its smaller successors, and the impact of subsequent rains?

I haven't recently hiked much of the AZT through the Mazatzals, but I've done parts of it four times since the fire (the first in November 2004), and a couple beforehand. In that 2004 trip, I was actually on the trail in a multi-day storm in which miles of trail literally (in the true grammatical sense) washed away before my eyes. For a time, my tent was cut off by flash floods crossing the ridge within a hundred feet in either direction. There was still a forest of standing Ponderosa snags back then, and I spent listening to them fall by the dozen as the baked, naked soil washed out from their roots.

Since then, I've seen what I take to be typical post-fire succession of flora in the parts I'm familiar with. At least one previously good water source seems to have dried up. I don't know how well that impression extends to the whole section, but it probably covers a good deal of it. It has challenging and occasionally disheartening aspects, shared with with many other such areas in AZ, including trails in the Chiricahuas, Galiuros, Superstitions, and many other places. catclaw is one such challenge. The dearth of water sources is another.

Perhaps I was lucky to grow as a desert hiker without having a bigger goal in mind than getting back to my car alive in the correct number days, whether I got to what I was aiming at or not. And more than a few times I didn't.

Anyway, I wonder whether any achievable amount of effort could get that section of trail to meet expectations. I suspect (somewhat as Farwalker implies) that somehow improving guidance to set more accurate expectations is more a more realistic goal.

[rcorfman]

P.S.(And it isn't a seasonal issue as some have alluded to. Nobos in spring found it to be, unequivocally, the worst part of the AZT--the 3 miles north and 15 miles south of LF Ranch).

I hiked that section end of last April. It was overgrown, but in general, I had no issue following the trail. The one area where I did have trouble, wasn't really overgrown, it was that there was no real tread, I just had to work my way from cairn to cairn. As I mentioned earlier, I hiked passages 1-3 last month and passage three was very overgrown and hard to follow. I heard no complaints from the spring class of nobos about that. So, what I'm trying to say here, in a long winded way, is that, I believe that this is a seasonal issue. At least as it has been a wet year in the right times to promote a lot of growth.

[Mad Science]

@rcorfman
Thanks for the heads up about passage three! I'm almost there.

[heyyou]

From Wikipedia: "In Greek mythology, Sisyphus was punished for his self-aggrandizing craftiness and deceitfulness by being forced to roll an immense boulder up a hill, only to watch it roll back down; repeating this action for eternity." He is needed as a trailworker in the Mazatzals.

What follows is my opinion, having section hiked the AzT twice:

All of the plants in the Mazatzals have an adaptation to fire damage--as a fire every few decades is normal there. The manzanita, scrub and white oak, blackberry, catclaw, and New Mexico locust, all regrow from roots so the trailworker needs to grub out each one after cutting it in order to get to the root. The 80,000 acres of regrowth from the Willow Fire is about ten years old and was re-fertilized with wind blown ash by the more recent Sunflower fire. The botanical variety is normal for a fire recovery area, at that elevation, in central Arizona. Yes, the contrast with the plant life above the Mogollon Rim is stark. Every long trail will have some places where conditions are tougher than on the rest of the trail, so that too is normal. Welcome to the Mazatzals.

I wish that recent users could have seen the AzT/Divide Trail when it had 521 small to medium-large, fire killed, deadfall Ponderosa, pinyon, and juniper trees laying on the tread. South of Rocky Ridge, near one former Ponderosa pine thicket, a big deadfall knocked over three of its neighbors to land four deep on the trail. If you measure trail clearing in hiking time, that stack required a day's work to clear 50 seconds of walking distance. Early on, a big Ponderosa north of Bear Springs needed a day and a half of saw work (compression on the cut and just enough decomposition that the wedges wouldn't force the kerf open), then its nearby sister of a similar size fell two years later. A larger crosscut saw helped to clear the sister in half a day, but with a day's walk in carrying the saw and a pry bar, a work day, and a third day to carry the tools out.

One bad regrowth place is where erosion enlarged a wash until it took out the trail on the edge of it. The bypass was a fresh route cut through dense brush by a pro crew, but that has now regrown.

The Mazatzal Wilderness is a great place to hike if you wear long pants and shirt, have thick soled trail shoes for the rocky tread, are not fixated on miles per day, and are not expecting trail corridor instead of narrow eroded tread on a steep sidehill. It is a good place to go to enjoy being there, instead of to just check off that you have seen it once. Consider using your shorts and running shoes for the high mileage days elsewhere. The burned portion of the Barnhardt Trail above the big waterfall is a good sample of how the Divide Trail portion of the AzTrail has no corridor. Try the Barnhardt past the waterfalls to see if you will like the Divide Trail.

The math is simple, there is more work to do in the Mazatzals than there is time and money--that's volunteer time or money to pay for the pro crews. Some who are comfortable with the conditions will see no need for improvement. Many others will ask, "When is someone else going to fix those places?", but a very few will decide to spend their time to do what they can, to help improve the trail there.

[Sredfield]

There are small crews working the Mazzies and doing additional assessment now. If anyone is interested in helping, PM me and I'll put you in touch. They are doing some day trips and overnighters. This is to get a real handle on what needs to be done and where to focus paid crews this coming spring, and address the worst safety issues.