USGS Survey Markers??

[ssk44]

Does anyone out there know specific information about the USGS survey markers that we find throughout the state? On the summit of Sevenmile Mountain were two markers. Why were there two rather then one just one? I am probably most familiar with section markers. I understand how those work. I know very little about summit markers and was hoping for some feedback.

Eric (ssk44)

[ssk44]

Thanks guys for all of your posts. I am reading all of them. This has been an interesting forum topic with lots of great information. :bigth:

[Sredfield]

OK, so I was just reading about these markers and realized that the state is absolutely littered with another monument which looks very similar to the benchmarks ... they are Witness Corners. You will find them on a topo map labeled as WC (I always wondered why I couldn't find the toilet... ).

WC monuments mark intersections of range, township, or section boundaries where the actual intersection is not in a location where a monument can be easily placed. A good example is along the Mogollon Rim, where the intersection occurs below the rim somewhere, a WC monument is placed on top of the rim. The monument points to the actual location of the intersection with specific distance. Elevation is not a part of this marker.

According to the USGS, a WC is normally placed within 5 or 10 chains from the actual corner.

For the record, I've also learned that a 10 chains is one furlong, and 80 chains is a mile. Which makes one chain 66 feet. Of course, there are 100 links in a chain, so a link is 7.92 inches. I don't remember learning that in school. (So 5 chains is 330 feet, and 10 is 660 feet from the actual corner).

I learned all kinds of new things today. I hope somebody else finds half of this to be as interesting as I do...

Here's a couple of photos of a Witness Corner at the edge of a cliff/lake that I found on Google.

A great book on the history of America's Survey, and measurment systems is "Measuring America" by Andro Linklater

[Nighthiker]

Oldest that I have found is 1902 ArizonaTerritory and several 1906.

[chumley]

This photo has prompted some discussion on Azimuth Marks, and I thought it would be beneficial to get some of the information from there into this post for future reference.

I think this is probably the main ingredient from the photo comments:

Azimuth Marks
An azimuth mark, together with its associated triangulation station, provides an accurate azimuth (like a compass direction) that is based on true North rather than magnetic North. This azimuth is used to orient local traverse surveys. These marks also have arrows in their centers that are supposed to point toward the triangulation station.

[mozdzen]

Anyone know how to find the information from the survey?
I've searched
https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_desig.prl
and found info that didn't include elevation information
For example CH5531 was set in 1946 and only includes Lat and Long info, but no elevation info.
Is that all I should expect?

[DixieFlyer]

For example CH5531 was set in 1946 and only includes Lat and Long info, but no elevation info.
Is that all I should expect?

I wonder the same thing...here is a pic of the marker on Superstition Peak 5057: [ photo ]

I can get the latitude and longitude from the dataset that you referenced, but I do not see elevation either

[CannondaleKid]

@DixieFlyer
Note the elevation in this excerpt from the SUPERSTITION Datasheet:

DU2086 DESIGNATION - SUPERSTITION
DU2086 PID - DU2086
DU2086 STATE/COUNTY- AZ/PINAL
DU2086 COUNTRY - US
DU2086 USGS QUAD - GOLDFIELD (1981)
DU2086
DU2086 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL
DU2086 ______________________________________________________________________
DU2086* NAD 83(1992) POSITION- 33 24 39.66108(N) 111 24 02.75525(W) ADJUSTED
DU2086* NAVD 88 ORTHO HEIGHT - 1542.1 (meters) 5059. (feet) VERTCON
DU2086 ______________________________________________________________________
DU2086 GEOID HEIGHT - -28.912 (meters) GEOID12B
DU2086 LAPLACE CORR - 4.13 (seconds) DEFLEC12B
DU2086 HORZ ORDER - FIRST

[LosDosSloFolks]

@CannondaleKid
So it's now Peak 5059. :-)

[mozdzen]

@CannondaleKid
How does one find the datasheet with the above info?

[Tough_Boots]

@mozdzen

https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/datasheets/

[CannondaleKid]

How does one find the datasheet with the above info?

Go to the link YOU posted above: (https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_desig.prl)
1. Enter the name of the Station Name (in this case "SUPERSTITION")
2. Pick the State (in this case "Arizona")
3. Select the Data Type Desired (I usually choose "Any Horz. and/or Vert. Control (includes destroyed marks))
4. Select the Stability Desired (I usually choose "Any Stability")
5. Click "Submit"

[mozdzen]

Ah,
I needed to hit the "get datasheet" button below - duh.
But there is only a data sheet for the entry labeled DU286, and none for the CHxxxx entries returned with the initial search.

This URL just takes you back to the search page:
https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_desig.prl
even though that is the URL that I'm on when viewing the datasheet

Some info from the page - they even have two pictures on file, and the bottom part talks about some confusion about the markers.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROGRAM = datasheet95, VERSION = 8.12.5.2
1 National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = MAY 20, 2019
DU2086 ***********************************************************************
DU2086 DESIGNATION - SUPERSTITION
DU2086 PID - DU2086
DU2086 STATE/COUNTY- AZ/PINAL
DU2086 COUNTRY - US
DU2086 USGS QUAD - GOLDFIELD (1981)
DU2086
DU2086 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL
DU2086 ______________________________________________________________________
DU2086* NAD 83(1992) POSITION- 33 24 39.66108(N) 111 24 02.75525(W) ADJUSTED
DU2086* NAVD 88 ORTHO HEIGHT - 1542.1 (meters) 5059. (feet) VERTCON
DU2086 ______________________________________________________________________
DU2086 GEOID HEIGHT - -28.912 (meters) GEOID12B
DU2086 LAPLACE CORR - 4.13 (seconds) DEFLEC12B
DU2086 HORZ ORDER - FIRST
DU2086
DU2086.The horizontal coordinates were established by classical geodetic methods
DU2086.and adjusted by the National Geodetic Survey in August 1993.
DU2086.
DU2086.The NAVD 88 height was computed by applying the VERTCON shift value to
DU2086.the NGVD 29 height (displayed under SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL.)
DU2086
DU2086.Significant digits in the geoid height do not necessarily reflect accuracy.
DU2086.GEOID12B height accuracy estimate available here.
DU2086
DU2086.Photographs are available for this station.
DU2086
DU2086.The Laplace correction was computed from DEFLEC12B derived deflections.
DU2086
DU2086. The following values were computed from the NAD 83(1992) position.
DU2086
DU2086; North East Units Scale Factor Converg.
DU2086;SPC AZ C - 267,451.058 261,343.312 MT 0.99992838 +0 17 02.7
DU2086;SPC AZ C - 877,464.10 857,425.56 iFT 0.99992838 +0 17 02.7
DU2086;UTM 12 - 3,696,925.591 462,736.598 MT 0.99961712 -0 13 14.4
DU2086
DU2086! - Elev Factor x Scale Factor = Combined Factor
DU2086!SPC AZ C - 0.99976249 x 0.99992838 = 0.99969089
DU2086!UTM 12 - 0.99976249 x 0.99961712 = 0.99937970
DU2086
DU2086: Primary Azimuth Mark Grid Az
DU2086:SPC AZ C - SUPERSTITION AZ MK 203 39 38.8
DU2086:UTM 12 - SUPERSTITION AZ MK 204 09 55.9
DU2086
DU2086_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 12SVB6273696925(NAD 83)
DU2086
DU2086|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
DU2086| PID Reference Object Distance Geod. Az |
DU2086| dddmmss.s |
DU2086| DU2031 FOUR PEAKS APPROX.30.7 KM 0124629.0 |
DU2086| CH5529 SUPERSTITION RM NE 1.760 METERS 04312 |
DU2086| CH5531 SUPERSTITION RM 3 6.053 METERS 17914 |
DU2086| CZ1935 DESERT PEAK APPROX.76.8 KM 1795812.0 |
DU2086| CG1129 COMOBABI PEAK 1854806.8 |
DU2086| CH5530 SUPERSTITION AZ MK 2035641.5 |
DU2086| DV2128 MARE APPROX.83.3 KM 2594119.2 |
DU2086| CH5528 SUPERSTITION RM CROSS 2.267 METERS 29025 |
DU2086|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
DU2086
DU2086 SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL
DU2086
DU2086 NAD 83(1986)- 33 24 39.65650(N) 111 24 02.75909(W) AD( ) 1
DU2086 NAD 27 - 33 24 39.48000(N) 111 24 00.28500(W) AD( ) 1
DU2086 NGVD 29 (07/19/86) 1541.5 (m) 5057. (f) VERT ANG
DU2086
DU2086.Superseded values are not recommended for survey control.
DU2086
DU2086.NGS no longer adjusts projects to the NAD 27 or NGVD 29 datums.
DU2086.See file dsdata.pdf to determine how the superseded data were derived.
DU2086
DU2086_MARKER: DB = BENCH MARK DISK
DU2086_SETTING: 66 = SET IN ROCK OUTCROP
DU2086_STAMPING: 1910 SUPERSTITION RESET 1965 U.S.C.G.S. 1946
DU2086_MARK LOGO: USGS
DU2086_STABILITY: A = MOST RELIABLE AND EXPECTED TO HOLD
DU2086+STABILITY: POSITION/ELEVATION WELL
DU2086_SATELLITE: THE SITE LOCATION WAS REPORTED AS SUITABLE FOR
DU2086+SATELLITE: SATELLITE OBSERVATIONS - May 16, 2009
DU2086
DU2086 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By
DU2086 HISTORY - 1899 MONUMENTED USGS
DU2086 HISTORY - 1910 GOOD USGS
DU2086 HISTORY - 1936 GOOD CGS
DU2086 HISTORY - 1938 GOOD CGS
DU2086 HISTORY - 1946 GOOD CGS
DU2086 HISTORY - 20090516 GOOD GEOCAC
DU2086
DU2086 STATION DESCRIPTION

...
...
...
DU2086'TO REACH STATION FROM FLORENCE JUNCTION. GO WEST ON HIGHWAY
DU2086'8.2 MILES TO A ROAD RIGHT THROUGH A CATTLE GUARD AT A HISTORICAL
DU2086'MARKER, ALSO AZIMUTH MARK AS DESCRIBED ABOVE. TURN RIGHT OFF
DU2086'HIGHWAY AND FOLLOW ROAD 4.6 MILES TO A FORK. TURN LEFT,
DU2086'GO 0.7 MILE TO A ROAD LEFT. TURN LEFT, GO 0.2 MILE TO A
DU2086'FORK. TAKE MAIN TRAVELED ROAD TO RIGHT AND GO 0.5 MILE TO
DU2086'A FORK. KEEP ON ROAD TO RIGHT AND GO 0.8 MILE TO A WIRE FENCE
DU2086'AND END OF TRUCK TRAVEL. FROM HERE CROSS FENCE AND PACK NORTH
DU2086'UP THE RIDGE TO THE MAIN CANYON, EAST OF THE VERTICAL CLIFFS.
DU2086'FOLLOW UP CANYON TO SADDLE, THENCE LEFT UP STEEP SLOPE TO
DU2086'TOP OF RIDGE, THENCE RIGHT ALONG CREST OF RIDGE TO HIGHEST
DU2086'POINT AND STATION AS DESCRIBED ABOVE. A FOUR HOUR PACK.
DU2086'
DU2086'OBSERVATIONS MADE FROM A 1.4 METER TRIPOD.
DU2086
DU2086 STATION RECOVERY (2009)
DU2086
DU2086'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2009 (BA)
DU2086'IT APPEARS THAT SOMETIME AFTER THE LAST RECOVERY REPORT IN 1946 THE
DU2086'ORIGINAL ALUMINUM STATION DISK WAS DAMAGED, AND THE DISK WAS RESET
DU2086'BY THE USGS IN 1965 WITHOUT BEING DOCUMENTED WITH THE USCGS.
DU2086'THE THREE REFERENCE MARKS ARE STILL IN PLACE AS ORIGINALLY DESCRIBED
DU2086'
DU2086'WHEN SET, AND FIELD MEASUREMENTS FROM EACH REFERENCE MARK TO
DU2086'THE STATION WERE ALL ACCURATE TO WITHIN .01 METERS, INDICATING THAT
DU2086'THE RESET STATION IS VERY LIKELY IN THE SAME LOCATION AS THE ORIGINAL
DU2086'
DU2086'DISK. THE RESET STATION DISK IS A STANDARD USGS BENCH MARK DISK
DU2086'STAMPED 1910 SUPERSTITION RESET 1965 U.S.C.G.S 1946.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks guys,
Tom

[rcorfman]

@mozdzen
The data sheet has the information for the mark and the reference marks. They're all set at the same time.

DU2086| CH5529 SUPERSTITION RM NE 1.760 METERS 04312 |
DU2086| CH5531 SUPERSTITION RM 3 6.053 METERS 17914 |
DU2086| CH5528 SUPERSTITION RM CROSS 2.267 METERS 29025 |

These are a bit strange in that only one gives the direction from the primary mark. Also, near the bottom of the data sheet it states how all three reference marks were found in 2009 and the measured distances are very close to what's described.

[CannondaleKid]

@rcorfman
I may be wrong, but based on my experience locating Reference Marks I've always used the number after METERS (in this case) as the direction in degrees, like so:
U2086| CH5529 SUPERSTITION RM NE 1.760 METERS 04312 | = 43.12° (roughly Northeast)
DU2086| CH5531 SUPERSTITION RM 3 6.053 METERS 17914 | = 179.14° (South)
DU2086| CH5528 SUPERSTITION RM CROSS 2.267 METERS 29025 | = 290.25° (roughly WNW)