Not backpacking Columbus Day wknd

[garyc57]

Church youth group is planning a R2R the Friday & Saturday before Columbus Day. Straight through - no overnight. Heaven help them!

[chumley]

@garyc57
Assuming those kids had to sign up, I hope the church has a special use permit in hand.
https://www.nps.gov/grca/learn/manageme ... MP_2602654

[garyc57]

@chumley
I apologize. I wasn't clear. We're driving them up on Friday, camping overnight outside the park boundary, getting them up Saturday morning at o'dark hundred, driving them to the North Kaibab trailhead, dropping them (and a few adult leaders) off, then driving around to the South Rim, and waiting for them to show up. One leader is estimating 13 hours.

[chumley]

@garyc57
Yup. They need a special use permit for that.

[sidhayes]

@chumley
A special permit to cross rim to rim?

[chumley]

@sidhayes
Yes.

Who is required to obtain a permit: Any organized, non-commercial or not-for-profit group conducting rim-to-rim and extended day hiking and running, including rim-to-river-to-rim, and rim-to-rim-to-rim that are operating in the inner canyon.

Organized Non-Commercial Groups are defined as any group traveling together, such as scouts, a club, a church, a meet up group, or a family/friend group that has created its own itinerary.

https://www.nps.gov/grca/learn/manageme ... MP_2602654

[DixieFlyer]

@chumley

Let's say that 10 people from HAZ decide to go on a R2R hike. It looks to me like they wouldn't need any sort of special permit, since the group size is less than 12 people. Am I missing something?

Organized Non-Commercial Groups are defined as any group traveling together, such as scouts, a club, a church, a meet up group, or a family/friend group that has created its own itinerary. Group size - 12-30 people.

[chumley]

@DixieFlyer
I'm the wrong person to ask. I recommend contacting the NPS directly. Another page on their website states (my emphasis):

Any group, regardless of size, which has advertised to the general public, required individuals to sign up prior to participation, or that has an organizer who has been compensated for their services (including subsidized participation in the activity), is required to operate under a Special Use Permit.

https://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/ ... MP_2605676
Additionally, there's 6 pages of posts on this topic from about 5 years ago when the rule was implemented: [ New $175 Permit + $300K Ins: R2R and ... ike/Run ]

[Paintninaz]

@garyc57
I sure hope these youth group participants have been well vetted for experience and capability. A R2R is not a typical walk in the park.

[Mick]

So You don't need a Special Use Permit if your group is dis-organised...