Bush Fire

[nonot]

BUSH FIRE EVENING UPDATE: The Bush Fire started at approximately 2:00 pm today, near the intersection of Bush Hwy and Hwy 87. The fire is estimated to be 600 acres, and burning to the north towards the Sugarloaf Recreation area along the southbound lanes of Hwy 87. The fire has crossed Hwy 87 to the east and is now burning along Four Peaks Road. There is no containment at this time.

Currently there are 9 engines, 2 hotshot crews and 4 airtankers assigned to the fire. Three additional crews and multiple engines have been ordered, and are responding to the fire. Firefighters are working to hold the fire on the west side of Hwy 87, and are building containment lines and using firing operations to suppress the fire.

Hwy 87 is currently closed in both directions at the FS RD 143, which is the road to Four Peaks and Sugarloaf. At this time, Lower Sycamore Canyon, Sugarloaf Recreation area and Four Peaks Recreation area are closed. The Bush Fire is currently under investigation. Law enforcement personnel are conducting sweeps of the closure areas to safely escort members of public out of the fire area. No structures are threatened at this time and no injuries have been reported.

TLDR: 87 is closed at 4 peaks road and you will have to go through globe to get to payson

Edit: Now the reroute through globe is no longer viable, access between payson and phoenix is via camp verde

Edit2: Fire has been contained and the highways reopened, thanks to the firefighter crews.

[CannondaleKid]

The fire, burning near milepost 199, caused the southbound lanes of Highway 87 to be closed at the SR-188 junction. The blaze crossed the highway and is now burning along Four Peaks Road.

And as pretty much a given for a fire in that area:

The fire is human-caused and an investigation is underway.

[chumley]

@CannondaleKid
Before you get too judgemental for human negligence, this one started from a car fire. I don't know if there was shooting, smoking, or a campfire in the engine compartment though, so it may still have been an idiot in training. But I'm guessing not.

[CannondaleKid]

@chumley
Hmmm... car fire? If it isn't negligence, what are the other choices? Incompetence? Carelessness? Recklessness?

Before you get too judgemental...

Whether as a result of shooting/smoking/campfire/car fire, if it wasn't naturally caused (i.e. lightning) in that area, obviously it was caused by humans in some way, shape or form, that's all I inferred.

[chumley]

if it wasn't naturally caused (i.e. lightning) in that area, obviously it was caused by humans in some way, shape or form, that's all I inferred.

That's not what you inferred. It was clearly stated to be human caused.

I don't know how most car fires start, but I think it's fair to give the driver the benefit of the doubt. That's why "an investigation is underway".

[CannondaleKid]

@chumley
I guess with you one must weigh each and every word/phrase or it will be dissected to the extreme...
But no matter, it doesn't change the result, it's still a human-caused fire and very few of those are innocently caused.

[outdoor_lover]

it's still a human-caused fire and very few of those are innocently caused.

Ok, everybody chill. If it was indeed a Car Fire, then I believe that it would fall into one that was innocently caused Mark, so don't prosecute people for that. I'm sure that most people don't intentionally set their cars on fire. It's not like they were dragging chains or parking on dry grass, UNLESS parking on dry grass is what started the "Car Fire". So everybody just kiss and make up until the official report is in.

With that said, I'm not innocent here either. Human caused in that area? Make me immediately think of shooters. I've actually called LE on Shooters in that area during Fire Bans and guess what? No one had anyone to send to check it out. And Shooters know that, so they don't pay any attention to Bans. Again, people will do what people want to do and screw everybody else.

This Area breaks my heart. The Saguaro Forest on the west side of the Beeline is phenomenal and I have photographed that area so much. I'm going to want to cry when I see the damage in that area.

[cactuscat]

Also, most cars don't just burst into flames without warning, do they?
Driving an overheating, ready-to-breakdown car along tinder dry highways seems negligent to me.

[chumley]

@cactuscat
I don't know how most car fires start. But, for example, Toyota has a recall on Priuses for an electrical problem that can cause fires. My truck has a recall notice for a leaf spring issue that can puncture the gas tank and cause a fire. So if the car was under a recall notice, but the owner didn't get it fixed yet, is it negligent? What about if there's an issue that hasn't made it to the level of a recall yet? It's just a manufacturing default or anomaly? I guess that's why "an investigation is underway".

[CannondaleKid]

I've actually called LE on Shooters in that area during Fire Bans and guess what? No one had anyone to send to check it out.

In very likely most cases it's simply a matter of lack of manpower... pretty much the norm for the Tonto Mesa district they only have one or two LEO's on duty. Sometimes it's only one, so if they are over on Apache Trail and you call in something along 87 or Bush Highway there's no way they will be able to respond. However, as below, sometimes DPS will respond to FS issues as well.

I've found it really helps to have a good relationship with the LEO's and at times have called them directly.

But in general, for any issue within Tonto NF when the district office is closed (weekends) I call Tonto Phoenix Dispatch directly: (480) 457-1551

On two occasions when I called Phoenix Dispatch, one for a campfire and one for shooter during bans I was somewhat surprised by the results.
For the campfire which was just off AZ 87 on FR 11, within 15 minutes of the call a DPS officer had already issued the citations.
For the shooter, the FS LEO arrived just a few minutes late... the alleged shooter had just packed up and was driving away so there was no smoking gun, just my say-so.

[outdoor_lover]

@CannondaleKid
I actually called MCSO because DPS wouldn't have jurisdiction off the Highway, and the shooters were back in the OHV area of Bush/Beeline. It was after hours so I didn't get anywhere with Tonto FS. I figured that MCSO would be fairly close since they take care of the Fountain Hills area. But nope, nada.... Thanks for that number, it's going in my phone.

[Jim]

So, will the 4 Peaks burn again? No inciweb page, but the active fire map suggests it might.

[CannondaleKid]

most cars don't just burst into flames without warning, do they?

Rarely on reasonably well-maintained vehicles, but then again how many are actually well-maintained.
Without warning can be pretty well nuanced...
Electrical: A worn wire may have been intermittently shorting out on metal for a long time until reaching the tipping point, and without a dry extinguisher electrical fires quickly fall into the stand back and let it burn category.
Fuel: I've witnessed more of these than I care to remember... I owned an auto repair shop practically in-the-sticks of N Minnesota and had many vehicles come in for service yet had small fuel leaks unknown to the owners. (A caveat: before fuel injection really hit the scene)

In my experience most fuel leaks were almost infinitesimal for some time before getting noticeable (usually by odor, not necessarily seeing the leak) yet even when drivers smell gas many times they ignore it.

If the fuel supply isn't cut off BEFORE trying to put out a fuel fire (#1 turn off the ignition!) it will hit the stand back and let it burn category while you're 'throwing dirt' on it. Yes, one of my customers who had siliconed the supposed-to-be-THREADED fuel fitting to his carburetor took the air filter off and threw dirt down the carb while the engine was running no less... EVEN IF the car hadn't burned to the ground the sand/dirt would have scored the cylinder walls. Can't fix stupid.
Even with the knowledge of his incompetence his car insurance company bought him a new car... yes NEW, even though his Firebird (kind of appropriate, huh?) was over a year old. (Insurance had me provide a sworn statement as to what I knew of the patch-job... what a waste of my time)

[CannondaleKid]

@outdoor_lover
Yes, I was floored that DPS responded, but then the campfire was within sight of AZ 87 and the trooper had a 4x4 SUV.

[outdoor_lover]

https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/6773/

[00blackout]

It looks massive.

[Sredfield]

@outdoor_lover
They don't seem to be updating inciweb this year.

[chumley]

@Sredfield
It's barely 36 hours old. I think sometimes it takes a while to get everything set up. And the early priority isn't the website.

So, will the 4 Peaks burn again?

With a "set" evacuation stage announced for Punkin Center and Tonto Basin, it seems they are at least planning for that likelihood.

[CannondaleKid]

Fire perimeter as of 3 pm 6/14/20:

From Inciweb

Beluga whale?

[Jim]

@chumley
Yeah, I pretty much thought as soon as I saw the spread from the fire Saturday on the map, that was 0% contained and with the wind forecast this week, that it's going right over the four Peaks.

Seems pretty likely that the Big Horn is going to go right up on Mount lemmon as well.