Advice on 2-night backpacking trip in the Superstitions?

[Wingsrising]

Here's the situation: In mid-March my boyfriend and I planned to do a 2-night backpacking trip from Canyon Lake, down Boulder Canyon Trail, and then down past Weaver's Needle. We're regular hikers (although not what I'd call really strong hikers) and beginning backpackers. Boulder Canyon trail turned out to be much more rugged than we were expecting (and also there were about a zillion creek crossings in March) and the upshot is while we had a great trip we didn't get anywhere close to Weaver's Needle.

We're planning another 2-night backpacking trip in the next few weeks and are looking for advice. My initial thought was to start closer to Weaver's Needle at the Peralta trailhead, hike up the Bluff Spings and Dutchman's trails, and then down the Terrapin trail. However, I'm nervous after our experience in Boulder Canyon -- normally I'd say we should have no problem doing that loop in a 3-day 2-night trip, but man, we made so much less mileage in Boulder Canyon this spring than I was expecting -- we didn't even make it to the junction with Second Water trail the first day, although we got a late start. I am wondering how rugged those trails are relative to the Boulder Canyon trail? Is there (dry) camping in the northern part of the Terrapin Trail? Might there be other water sources besides LaBarge and Charliebois springs? Lastly, any idea how much colder than Phoenix itself is that route likely to be?

(If there are other routes that would be better to take, I'm open to suggestions -- I live in Flagstaff so it's not like this is my one and only chance to hike in the Weaver's Needle area. I do like the fact that it has LaBarge and Charliebois springs, though, meaning opportunities to bail with water if we find we're not making enough mileage to make the whole loop. )

Thank you for any advice you might have!

[nonot]

Boulder Canyon trail starts out tough for backpackers with the climb from the marina parking, and the rock hop towards the end. Being beginner backpackers you probably learned about new muscles you didn't know you had.

Bluff springs starts out with a really rough steep climb from the parking area, but flattens out without the rock hopping. But then terrapin involves another climb.

I would guesstimate that the first day of your March plan will be about the same difficulty as your Boulder canyon trip, with the second day maybe being slightly easier. The Bluff Springs itself (the springs) may make a good target for day 1. In march, the section of the dutchman trail between Terrapin and Peralta often has water flowing and may make for a good day 2 end of day target, the you can finish on Peralta trail back to Peralta TH for end of day 3 target.

No shame in a beginning backpacker group reducing miles. I would also encourage all beginning backpackers to carefully evaluate everything they brought on their first tripe, and spend a minute asking, for each item over a few ounces, whether they felt that it really was needed based on what they learned on their first trip. If so, keep it in your pack for trip 2. If not, consider setting a few of those items aside and not bringing them on your next trip. Furthermore, if there are 2 of you, and you both have that item, maybe have one person bring things that are questionably needed, and the other person leave it at home. That way at least if you need it one of you still has it. Tip: don't do this for toothbrushes.

Edit: I was confused by the original idea and incorrectly cited LaBarge spring...now fixed

[nonot]

Hmmm, if your day 1 plan is to take Dutchman to Bluff springs trail - that route trades longer miles for a less steep hike, and is also enjoyable. Bluff springs probably still makes a good target for day 1 based on your history/ability from your prior trip, and that day 1 route may be slightly easier for beginners than the Boulder canyon day 1.

[Wingsrising]

@nonot
No, LaBarge spring is along the route I was thinking of -- we were thinking of going up the Bluff Spring trail from the trailhead to the Dutchman's trail and then north from there around Bluff Spring mountain past the LaBarge and Charliebois springs, then down the Terrapin trail. I am thinking that might be excessively optimistic, though...

We were thinking of doing it late next week or early the week after. Do you know if Bluff Spring might have water at this time of year?

[nonot]

Boulder Canyon to Second Water is about 4 miles and 1200 ft AEG

Bluff Springs Trail from Peralta TH to Dutchman Intersection (basically to Bluff Springs) is: 3.3 miles and 950 ft AEG. Statistically it is a little easier but in my opinion that first hill on Bluff Springs makes it just slightly harder in comparison.

If you also add the Dutchman trail to Charlebois on day 1, this adds 3.6 miles but only about 100 ft AEG (it is mostly downhill), for a total of 6.9 miles and 1050 ft AEG.

How well you will do is hard to say over the internet. If you think you have substantially improved from March I'd say go for it.

If I were trip leader with a group of your experience involved, I'd plan to pause when you get to the Dutchman/Bluff Springs intersection, and see how everyone is feeling. If people are feeling great, I'd suggest the group go for the longer loop through Charleyboy and add a couple of miles to day 1. If people are cashed out for the day by the time you get there, call it a day, find the spring and camp nearby, and do the shorter loop over the next two days. It's slightly advanced for the first time backpacker, but you may want to consider planning to give yourself some options and tailor the trip to work for what's best to you as you go along, rather than what someone on the internet might say.

Usually for people just beginning backpacking, I prefer shorter trips that aren't in their strenuous-"I barely made it" range, but in their "a bit tough but a good workout" range. If people associate backpacking with deathmarches and not making it to camp before nightfall, then I find that they lose interest in backpacking rather quickly. And if they enjoy it enough to stick with backpacking, all those places they didn't make it to on their first few trips are still there, awaiting to be explored in later trips.

Edited to say:
No HAZ member has filed a spring report for Bluff Springs since February. It is a bit tough to find, usually most people will follow the pipe section you can see from the trail to the actual spring. The pipe is likely broken and it may only be wet near the Spring. If it was dry then you may want to start early in case you feel you need to make it to Charlesbois to get water.

Another thing to mention is that the southern half of the area you plan to visit burned over the summer. There will be a lot of ash and you will likely get a bit dirty and dusty.

Edit 2: And realizing you plan to go in two weeks, you will not find any water on day 2 along the simpler route I've suggested.

Another alternative might be: this one: [ Whiskey West-Red Tanks Loop ]

Both Whiskey Springs and LaBarge have confirmed water in the last month.

[Wingsrising]

Definitely don't want to be totally miserable! I am thinking we will schlepp enough water that we can make a dry camp at Bluff Spring if there is no water there and if we don't feel up to making it to LaBarge, and then play it by ear based on how far in we get on that first day.

Thank you!

[Hikealong]

@Wingsrising
How did your trip go? I'm planning a similar trip for this weekend. Any status on water sources and trail conditions would be much appreciated!

[Wingsrising]

@Hikealong
I'm afraid we ended up just camping at Lost Dutchman State Park and then doing a day hike along Bluff Spring trail and then a ways up the Terrapin trail. My boyfriend started a migraine cycle the week before the planned trip and didn't want to risk getting too sick to hike more than a day's hike from the trailhead, and while I do want to do some solo backpacking trips, the Superstitions with near-freezing lows didn't seem like an auspicious place to start. (Looks like it's going to be warmer this weekend.)

It was a great hike, although the initial ascent was steep enough that I think that if I do take that route as a backpack I want to do it sometime when I can be fairly confident of water at Bluff Spring so I don't have to schlepp as much water. And hiking through some of the burned-out areas was sad. :-(

Ironically there actually were some small pools of water in the creek bed this past Tuesday -- I assume it rained down there when it snowed up in Flag over the weekend -- but I imagine they are not there now.

[Hikealong]

Aw bummer about the migraines. I definitely wouldn't want to be pushing it under those conditions. Thanks for the update and sounds like you still had good time! I'm still working out our route and agree that the less water we need to carry, the better.

[desertadapted]

I would pitch you on taking Dutchman from First Water TH. I think it's the easiest hike to Charlebois and LaBarge springs. Then you can meander around while maintaining base camp at the spring of your choice. I did the Bluff Springs, Terrapin, Peralta loop a couple weeks back and both Bluff Springs and Terrapin are showing fire impacts. I would not recommend lugging a heavy backpack through there.
Also, I'd say Bluff Springs out of Peralta is harder than Boulder Canyon. I've seen many an overloaded backpacker utterly miserable on the Bluff Springs approach. If you really want to use Peralta TH, then Dutchman out of Peralta also gets you to the springs without too much work. The hike up is a very gentle grade. Then you can take Peralta back, which is a much gentler trail than Terrapin/Bluff Springs (both offer sick views of Weaver's).

[prisegem]

@desertadapted
Bluff Springs to Charlebois is one of my favorite hiking areas in the supes. Haven't been there since the fires. I know you took the left on the Terrapin, but do you happen to know the impact of the fire if you continued east on the Bluff Springs trail, is that whole canyon burned as well?

[prisegem]

@desertadapted
Bluff Springs to Charlebois is one of my favorite hiking areas in the supes. Haven't been there since the fires. I know you took the left on the Terrapin, but do you happen to know the impact of the fire if you continued east on the Bluff Springs trail, is that whole canyon burned as well?

[desertadapted]

@prisegem
I’m sorry I don’t know. It was pretty burned coming out of peralta after it hits elevation. But not sure after the terrapin turnoff.

[Watauga]

@desertadapted
Bluff Springs to Charlebois is one of my favorite hiking areas in the supes. Haven't been there since the fires. I know you took the left on the Terrapin, but do you happen to know the impact of the fire if you continued east on the Bluff Springs trail, is that whole canyon burned as well?

I was back that way a few weeks ago and there was quite a bit of burn throughout the length of Bluff Spring. I came up Red Tanks and turned on BS to head back to Peralta so I did not see the area right around Charlebois.

[desertadapted]

@Watauga I hit Charlebois spring two weeks ago and the area around it seemed just fine.

[Watauga]

@desertadapted

Nice! I will have to head that direction the next time that I'm out there.

Are there any reliable maps that show the extent of last year's fires?

[desertadapted]

@Watauga
I’m sorry, I don’t know. I’m sure someone else on the forum does.

[xsproutx]

The area between La Barge and Charlebois is mostly okay but everything before that is pretty toasty for the most part.

[xsproutx]

As far as fires go, I've seen a couple of maps but they're not that good at being reliable as far as the particulars in my opinion. For the western supes, you can basically consider the northern routes from first water TH to be toasty as hell (second water, black mesa). From peralta, Peralta trail isn't too bad until you hit the saddle, then it's all burnt until you hit dutch. Bluff? Once you're past the initial climb, it's burnt until you get into la barge. Dutch? Not bad until you meet up with the other trails. RT? Burnt. It's still beautiful but there is most definitely a lot of fire damage in the western supes. I haven't been out east of whiskey this season so can't comment past there.

[chumley]

Are there any reliable maps that show the extent of last year's fires?

The perimeter maps are usually fairly easy to find.
Woodbury 19 https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/photos/AZTNF/2 ... 9-CDT.jpeg
(Also here on HAZ: [ Woodbury Fire Perimeter :: map ] )
Superstition 20 https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/photos/AZTNF/2 ... 8-CDT.jpeg

But the perimeter doesn't tell the full story. Another resource is the burn severity map. Even this can be misleading because it measures the burn severity of the SOIL. While soil conditions after a fire often correlate to how the plants above the surface burned, this isn't always true, and can differ based on what was there to begin with (desert scrub, pinion-juniper, ponderosa, etc).
Woodbury 19 https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/photos/AZTNF/2 ... 51-CDT.pdf
I haven't seen a BAER report published for the Superstition fire.