Reavis Ranch Alternative?

[rickcmarsh]

I was planning on taking a group of 15 boys backpacking to Reavis Ranch on March 4/5th - only to find out that the trailhead isn't accessible currently. I was looking for a similar profile hike to replace it. Ideally between 15-20 miles round trip (out/back, loop, lasso OK), ~2hr drive or less from the Gilbert Area. Reliable water source and camping spots at the halfway/turnaround point, and a fairly navigable trail, as we will likely be hiking some in the dark on the 4th. It also would need to be accessible by 2WD sedan (which is why we won't being going in from the south/Roger's Trough).

I have been searching through many of the route guides and descriptions - but seems like either - no camping spots, spotty water, wilderness area or "wear kevlar" trails. I would say if we get a warmer spell I may be tempted to take the Fish Hatchery trailhead up to Knoll lake and a little beyond. Or potentially Towel Creek Trail #67 if weather up on the rim isn't warmer than expected.

[xsproutx]

@rickcmarsh
What have you been looking at that's turned you off? This state is ridiculous with public lands/wilderness areas/routes for backpacking.

So, you were considering the Supes in the first week of March: there's still a whole bunch for consideration and have a lot of spots suitable for a larger group (and water). For a larger group like that, I'd suggest around Bluff spring or La Barge. Both can be gotten to easy enough from First Water or Peralta and have out-and-back opportunities as well as loops. Both those areas have large flat areas to accommodate larger groups as well as water. Hackberry is also nice and pleasant and has a good amount of space (although, I would advise arriving earlier rather than later if going on a Friday or Saturday as it gets busy). Starting from First Water would result in the longer version while Bluff, you could have a shorter first day (4.5 miles ish) and then a second day that's longer/or shorter (IE, return back on Dutchman for a shorter version, or go down to la barge and red tank, connecting to whiskey and then dutch). There are also a ton of good spots near Charleboi, but you'd have to spread out across a few camps. They'd be pretty close together but yeah, that's a large group.

You could also do Haunted Canyon as an out and back, although that would be a little lower than your lower mileage, but is pleasant. It honestly probably has the most space close together that would accommodate that many people/tents, too. The area right before the cabin has a ton of room; last time I was there, there was a boy scout group in that area with a least 10 tents and there was plenty of room for more.

This time of year with that travel range, the supes are probably the best bet for this type of trip (although the way the weather has been the last week, it may be warmer than you'd like... but not tooo hot). Hiking on to the rim at that time will be a roll of the dice as well: could still be a lot of snow/ice and cold temps. March is probably the most volatile time to backpack in AZ because the lower desert may be too warm, the high desert too cold. That's what the Mazzies are good for though...

Any rate, stay on the Western half of the supes and none of the trails are bushwhacky and there is a ton of water. A multitude of loops to put together Even if you had to ONLY rely on the normal perennial water sources, they're fairly close for this type of trip but, right now, there is water everywhere in pools, and flowing in some spaces still, and I would expect that to continue into the first week or two of March. Additionally, we're expecting some more rain this week which will help even more.

[nonot]

Your planned group size exceeds the wilderness group limit. The Superstition Wilderness, like all Arizona wildernesses, has a group size limit of 15 people/group max. So if 1 adult, you are limited to 14 kids. If you intend to take 15 kids you must avoid all wilderness areas. Assuming you can downsize your party by a few kids, there are other areas of the Superstition Wilderness you can visit that have similar statistics:

Second Water/Boulder/Cavalry/Dutchman Loop seems roughly to match your distance target. Lasso Loop (almost a true loop). Accessible from First Water Trailhead, which is car friendly.

Boulder Canyon/Dutchman/Charlesbois/Cavalry/Boulder Loop, from the Marina trailhead, which is car friendly. This is a lasso Loop.

The central/eastern Superstition trails have largely been damaged by wildfire, so I will refrain from suggesting those areas as I have yet to visit most of those trails since the fire and don't know their condition, plus few are car accessible.

March tends to be difficult to plan backpacking, the weather is fickle and one week a trail could be nice, the next week the same trail is covered in 8 inches of snow. Swings in the day's high temperature of 20-25 degrees are fairly common week to week. The suggestions above stick to the lowest elevations. Trips above 4500 ft, such as on/near the Mogollon rim or to Reavis Ranch, are more susceptible to getting snow bound when bad weather rolls through in March, and if planning trips at higher elevations it is advisable to check the weather forecast, be prepared to cancel, and/or to change plans to a lower elevation itinerary.

[xsproutx]

Unread post by nonot » Feb 21 2022 10:38 pm
Your planned group size exceeds the wilderness group limit.

Good point on the group size limit; had forgotten about that. To both our points on March being twilight zone weather wise, it's a bit hard to come up with a non-wilderness trip that could accommodate a larger group like this in the low desert.

Additionally, OP, you mentioned a bunch of young people but with a two day mileage of 15-20 miles. That's not crazy off what I expect beginners to be okay with but I'm usually looking at 6 miles a day, maybe a top of 8, when working with people who don't do it too often. Thats general feedback, though, and may not apply to the group you're with.

[nonot]

The combination of well groomed trail, car accessible trailhead, 20+ miles, about 2 hours from Phoenix, outside of the wilderness, reliable water is a difficult combination indeed.

Doing out and back chunk of AZT segment 16 seems the best solution. I am not familiar with water reliability along the Black Canyon Trail system, but if someone can provide a water report, that would be my second suggestion.

Cave Creek trail system might qualify, but you'd have to stretch the definition of "well maintained."

If some of the conditions were relaxed, the number of possibilities expands greatly.

[rickcmarsh]

Thank you for the thoughts. The Wilderness restriction is what is eliminating some of the Mazzy and Supe hikes.

For Haunted Canyon I was getting a little leary of the portion in the guide which indicated that you had to scale cliffy areas or wade through the water. Based upon the feedback so far, I would assume to not pursue Towel Creek #67?

[big_load]

For Haunted Canyon I was getting a little leary of the portion in the guide which indicated that you had to scale cliffy areas or wade through the water.

I was going to suggest Haunted Canyon. It's not bad at all, apart from one little spot. The cliffy areas are still wide trail in my book. I've never had to wade in the water, although getting around it has taken a bit of scrambling. My wife didn't find it challenging, which is a good endorsement.

[rickcmarsh]

Doing out and back chunk of AZT segment 16 seems the best solution.

This looks intriguing. If we are doing well we could perhaps go all the way to Walnut canyon. If they are struggling we could stop sooner. Looks like the downside is that we are exposed along the trail most of the way, and perhaps the Gila itself is a bit silty/murky?

[xsproutx]

@rickcmarsh
"Scale cliffy areas" sounds worse than it is: a well maintained and used trail. Last I went was... October? There was a large boy scout group of 8ish 12 year boys. At that time there were no water crossings as the creek bed was dry. Considering it's been a dry winter, my guess is that if there is water, it's probably just a little stream right now. With that said, it's part of the wilderness so a bit of an issue with the group size still.

AZT 16 is a cool chunk of trail. It's the lowest portion of the AZT, though, which means it's warmer, and has little shade so you'll want to watch the weather as even March gets tricky here at times. That's kind of the story of most of the AZT, really, though. Depending on vehicles, you could start from Cochran or from the BLM parking lot on the East; both are nice in their own way. The Gila may be silty but I've never had any issues filtering it at all so I wouldn't be concerned about that.

[nonot]

Thank you for the thoughts. The Wilderness restriction is what is eliminating some of the Mazzy and Supe hikes.

For Haunted Canyon I was getting a little leary of the portion in the guide which indicated that you had to scale cliffy areas or wade through the water. Based upon the feedback so far, I would assume to not pursue Towel Creek #67?

The Haunted Canyon trail system also goes into the Superstition Wilderness, so it would not be appropriate for parties of more than 15 people. The road to get to the Haunted Canyon trailhead is also not car friendly (in my opinion). It is a trail. Anyone experiencing wading or going down "cliffs" is leaving the trail and going through the lower part of the canyon bottom (which can be fun, but is more difficult.) The central/upper half of the canyon, the trail itself goes through the canyon bottom (or else on the east side), until you pop out near the old ranch. The trail is suitable for horses, and is not difficult hiking. Other than a bit of mud in areas it is generally dry.

Edit: I see where Fritzki mentions this in the guide. I believe that section of trail has been improved over the years. At worst, you take a few steep steps.

[nonot]

Doing out and back chunk of AZT segment 16 seems the best solution.

This looks intriguing. If we are doing well we could perhaps go all the way to Walnut canyon. If they are struggling we could stop sooner. Looks like the downside is that we are exposed along the trail most of the way, and perhaps the Gila itself is a bit silty/murky?

Welcome to hiking in the Sonoran desert. There are few shade trees/opportunities. Bring a hat and wear sunscreen. I recommend buying water filters that are field cleanable, but not everyone agrees with my philosophy.

[nonot]

@rickcmarsh
AZT 16 is a cool chunk of trail. It's the lowest portion of the AZT, though, which means it's warmer, and has little shade so you'll want to watch the weather as even March gets tricky here at times.

The weather wonkiness works both ways as well. If it turns out to be 90+ degrees in Phoenix in March, then instead of experiencing low elevation desert swelter and suffering, head up to the Highline trail from Pine TH or the 260 TH and do an out and back in the lower pine forest.

[ShatteredArm]

I am not familiar with water reliability along the Black Canyon Trail system

Agua Fria crossings should almost definitely have water right now, but outside of that I would expect no water.

The only other thing I can think of besides what has been mentioned is the Highline Trail. Water shouldn't be hard to find this time of year and there are some areas that can easily accommodate 15 people.
[ Highline Trail 31 - Water Sources :: map ]

[xsproutx]

@ShatteredArm
Side note, you seem to have some experience here. I’ve kind of wanted to backpack the BCT but the water situation has kept me away because it seems like the agua fria crossings can’t be trusted to have water. That sound accurate in your experience? Bikepacking you get it done quicker so it’s a different game but I kind of just wanted to walk it

[rcorfman]

@xsproutx
I've backpacked the length of the BCT a couple of times and actually started to last January but got off the trail with Covid. I've always seen water at all Agua Fria river crossings south of Big Bug Trailhead. The one Agua Fria crossing north of Big Bug trailhead is seasonal. Besides those dependable water sources, there is also a tank/trough set up at Russian Well and General Spring. There's another tank with water between General Spring and Big Bug trailhead (north of where the trail crosses the Antelope Creek road) but I've never figured out how to get water from it (I never tried, just quickly looked).

[rickcmarsh]

@xsproutx
If I am backpacking the AZT #16 - are the tree's sturdy enough for Hammock Camping? Weather so far is looking nice enough, I'd love to just take my hammock. I plan to camp 7-10 miles in.

[xsproutx]

@rickcmarsh
Yep! You can definitely make it work. There are tons of trees and they'd all sturdy. You might have to get a little creative and you likely won't see a spot that looks "established" for hammocking, but the trees will definitely work and there are plenty. May not get the "perfect" hang but you'll get something good enough. I know for sure that about 10 miles in from the BLM parking lot, the trail crosses a big wash and there are really good options there and is a popular spot for people to access the gila for water. For what it's worth, I primarily hammock even in the low desert so I have experience with it.