More to inflatable insulated sleeping pads than meets the eye (not to mention, ear)

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

So, in 2019, I bought a Nemo Tensor Insulated inflatable sleeping pad. Knowing nothing about backpacking, I opted for the lighter, cheaper option, the Regular size pad. (As opposed to Wide.)

At the time, Nemo wasn't saying what the R value was. (IIRC, they said there was no standard.) Now that there is a standard, I think they rated it at 3.5.

It's been a fine pad. It was a little noisy at first - every time I turned around, I felt bad for the guy in the next tent.

But either I've become hard of hearing lately or the pad has become quieter with use. (I think mostly the latter.)

It has never failed and even though "only" 20 inches wide, I was comfortable on it.

The only problem I've had of late is that the rubber used for the valve has lost some of its pliability (is it hardening?) and it has been difficult to open the value. (I swabbed it with Armor-All (it made my car seats slippery), which seems to have helped.)

Anyway, all the "Influencers" tell me that I'll be more comfortable with a wider, 25", pad. So I was thinking about selling my old Nemo and buying the new, for 2022, Wide Nemo Tensor Insulated pad.

It is said to be as quiet as the previous model, but now the R value increased to 4.2.

I hypothesize that you can have the best sleeping bag in the world, but it won't do you much good if you're sleeping on the best heat sink in the world. (The "Earth.") So it seems to me that a higher R value pad can effectively increase the Comfort Rating of your sleeping bag.

Sounded perfect. (Albeit $200 a few months ago before Inflation really kicked in.)

Except if you read REAL reviews, left by REAL users (not "Influencers,") you'll read that the new Nemo pad tears, rips, leaks terribly. (In fact, a popular outfitter stopped carrying them recently.)

I suspect that, like the Space Shuttle disaster caused when NASA changed its foam tiles to a "Green" product, Nemo's failures are also a result from "Going Green." (Switching to recycled materials, instead of what worked best.)

So Nemo was out.

Now, back in 2019 I had first tried a Big Agnes AXT (I think it was?). Even though ostensibly insulated, it was terribly cold. And that was in the backyard, in May! In Phoenix!

BA has a different version now called the "Rapide." But still sour from my previous experience, I didn't consider it.

Good thing because I read a Review that pointed out that because of the baffling used in the Rapide, you will be blasted with cold when you move around, because you'll move warm air from out of a chamber, replacing it with cold. Perhaps the same problem I had with the AXT.

Okay, so how about the new (only a month old) Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XTherm NXT?

While everyone says that the T-a-R Neo's are the best, everyone also says that they are LOUD. Like crunching a potato chip bag.

So Therm-a-Rest fixed that and it's much quieter now. (Although I don't know if as quiet as a Nemo.)

So, except for the fact that no one knows if it's durable, that looked like my next option.

Although at $250 ... yikes!

But again, a good Review to the rescue.

It turns out that, because this pad (and also the Nemo) rely on Mylar foil held in a matrix puffed up by air, you have to inflate the pad to the max to realize the full R value of the bag. (Makes sense. Otherwise, the foil might not be stretched out properly or face the proper direction.)

The down side of this, according to the good Reviewer, is that the pad is uncomfortably hard/stiff when inflated to the max.

If you let a little bit of air out to make it more comfortable, you lose R value and it goes cold.

Who woulda thought? (Not me. Which I why I'm poating this.)

My Nemo Tensor doesn't seem as susceptible to this effect. But I'm sure it is to some degree. (No pun intended. But I'll take it.)

For now I am trying the new Outdoor Vitals Oblivion Long-Wide.

I probably fell for the hype, because they teased a launch last week, with video, and a sale price of $110.

Now THAT'S my price point.

As above, I have no idea how durable it will be. I don't know anything about OV, but they have a lifetime warranty. (OTOH, I've read that their Customer Service is not good.)

I took a nap on it this afternoon, and 1) yes, I like a wider pad and 2) it was comfortable for a half hour nap. (Bonus: Being longer, pillow placement isn't as critical.)

I plan to try it in the backyard tonight. (We're expecting rain at 4 am.)

It's only a couple ounces heavier than a Nemo Long-Wide, and packs down almost the same.

Its R Value is stated to be 3.5, the same as my old Nemo.

They say that they use "synthetic" insulation. I don't know what that means. But there's no Mylar in it. So no crinkling. Probably not dependent on max inflation for max insulation.

I don't know if it's baffled/chambered such that I'll run cold with movement. That's part of tonight's test.

[xsproutx]

I would like one that's much wider

Best backpacking thing I ever did was switch from the standard 20" to the 25" wide. On paper the extra 5 inches seemed like it wouldn't make a big difference but boy oh boy.

[azbackpackr]

@xsproutx
What kind of pad do you have? I am kind of in the market for a wider one.

[xsproutx]

@azbackpackr
Nemo tensor Insulated, the reg/wide rectangular version. I've found the complaints of durability issues to be overblown and the whole "squeaky wheel" thing; they're still the second most used pad by thru hikers and survive that just fine mostly. Based on my purely anecdotal experience of talking to/having a lot of thru hiking friends still, I believe it's more of being a victim of your own success. They sell a ton of pads because they're comfy and when you sell more, you'll have more total issues, and those people will be (rightfully) upset that they just spent a pretty penny and had an issue. Have ~100 nights on my current one that's the latest "problem" generation. I've taken it down to the high teens and been warm but probably wouldn't take it much colder than that. I'll break out my xtherm for anything below mid-teens

A buddy I backpack with a lot has the sea to summit ether light which is even thicker than the nemo and is pretty damn comfy; I think he had one leak (a bullhead through it) and probably has 30+ nights on it if I had to guess. I'd say they're definitely the two most comfortable pads on the market right now. On a recent trip, it got down to the low 20s and my buddy said he probably wouldn't take it much further down than that. Note, he's a pretty cold sleeper and was also have issues with drafts in his quilt on that trip so could just be that.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

I just returned from an overnight at McFarland Canyon where I slept on my new Oblivion in real world conditions for the first time. OAT fell to 40 F, with a RH of 80 %. (!) (Surprisingly, no condensation in my tent.)

The Oblivion is still more comfortable than my 2019 Nemo Tensor. As I said previously, I fall asleep on it (side sleeper) and I don't move.

But, my Oblivion doesn't sleep as "warm," despite that it's ASTM rated at R=3.5, the same as my Nemo. I now see that that's because the polyester insulation is not continuous, but is in horizontal strips between the vertical I beams. (They could have cut up little squares of insulation and glued them in between the I beams. But that would have been more labor intensive = more expensive.)

And/or it could be thermal bridging from the bottom of the I beams to the top. Whereas the insulation on my Nemo is almost continuous. (Smaller thermal bridges.)

The upshot of this is that, while side-sleeping at about 1 in the morning, there were times when my pointy hip was cold. (I'm skinny.) If I moved a little bit, I could find a warm spot. Or if I laid on my back, I didn't notice these pockets of cold. So I had to "toss" a bit to stay comfortable.

Still, in the equation for comfort vs. warmth, the Oblivion beats my Nemo. I was always tossing and turning on my Nemo. I can increase the warmth of my Oblivion. But I can't increase the comfort of my Nemo.

In fact, I had one of those EVA foam pads under my Oblivion. I moved it to under my sleeping bag instead, and that mitigated the cold spot problem. (Hint: Michael's Crafts sells a 3/16" thick, long-wide rolls of EVA for about $6.)

Still, I wonder whether my Oblivion would keep me warm at 20 F, as my Nemo did last month.

I suppose I'll have to wait until next winter to know.

[xsproutx]

@TooOld2HikeQ
Do you still have the nemo by chance? A lot of people I've talked to who can't get comfortable on the thicker pads like the nemo and sea to summit inflate them to their fullest for sleep. If you do that on those thicker pads with the flatter baffles, it's definitely going to be uncomfortable in my experience. I find my thicker pads to be comfortable at around 80-85% full and it's a night and day difference. With that said, I've found the comfort level of "fullness" to be different on every pad due to different baffle designs. If you're found something comfy though, that's what matters the most. A sleepless night sucks

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@xsproutx
Yes, I still have the Nemo. (But am thinking of putting it up for sale here.) I have let air out of it while sleeping on it - no matter what I try, it's uncomfortable for me.

And now I'm spoiled by Long-Wide.

[azbackpackr]

@xsproutx
@TooOld2HikeQ

Ack! Thank you for all the information. I think I will keep my wallet in my purse and stick with what I have for now. After all I got both of them for free after the old ones had slow leaks. And I just spent two weeks sleeping on one and actually got more hours of sleep per night than I do at home. However I will make a note of these pads in case I end up buying another one. Thank you.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@azbackpackr
Agreed. There's no point in buying a new pad if you're already sleeping well on your current pad(s).

In my case, being a newbie, and believing that Nemo was the best, I figured that my tossing & turning on it was "Just Me." Or the norm for backpacking. Now, having tried something better (comfort-wise), I know better.

(I think it's almost impossible to conclude how you'll like a pad by laying on it for a minute or two in a store. Except to rule out pads that are definitely uncomfortable. Like trying on backpacks, you don't really know until you've spend a day or two with one.)

I can't say that I sleep better camping than I do in bed. But getting closer.

Now my comfort focus has shifted to my (inflatable) pillow. Tried a few. But as a side sleeper, they all pop my ear.

[AZClaimjumper]

I have the 20" wide, 72" length XTherm. It's kept me off the cold ground, it hasn't leaked thanks to its 70D ground side material, its light weight & takes up little space inside my backpack & it has an R6.9 rating. No air mattress in the world is going to disturb my sleep after I've crawled into my sleeping bag after a day of hiking. I now just need to be concerned with keeping my feet warm. My GooseFeet Down filled Booties with 75% overfill solved that problem. Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada