Do you stay or do you go???

[outdoor_lover]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/19/us/arizo ... zgUsj9Iu-c

Apparently, they all left. There may be more to this story than meets the eye, but I don't think the story is that inaccurate. When I suffered a traumatic knee injury on a hot, humid day in MN, I literally went into shock and was freezing my pumpkin off 30 minutes after it happened. I would hate to think about being alone with that in the middle of the wilderness because my companions wanted to press on. The only person left behind was the injured party. I just find it difficult to believe that not one other person would stay, at least until help arrived. If everyone wanted to continue the trip so badly, they should have all stayed until the rescue was complete, that way no one who stayed would have to abort their trip, or hike alone to "catch up" with the others.

I've been in this scenario on the other side, but it was a day hike. Some of you were with me. It was a heat exhaustion case on a shuttle hike. We had only been hiking for about 45 minutes when one of our party went down. It took a bit to determine the cause, because it wasn't a hot day, it was still "winter" basically. We got the person cooled down, but knew that it would be reckless for her to continue. She was feeling good enough after a bit, she felt like she could hike back out, but as a group, we decided that she wouldn't be doing it alone. One of our party accompanied her back to the TH, and the rest of us continued. They met us for lunch at the end of the hike and she was fine by then.

What do you think? Would you stay or would you go? I went, but only because my companion was being escorted out and was in very capable hands. But I never would have let her walk back out on her own, I was ok with aborting the entire hike and I think everyone felt the same way. But when one person in our group volunteered to go back with her, the rest of us were also ok with continuing.

[chumley]

On the surface the choices made seem to go against conventional wisdom. We can let the internet decide, or we can consider that every situation is different and we weren't there and don't know the people involved, their experience levels, preparedness, nature of the injury, and 100 other relevant factors.

[nonot]

I think the first rule is never to do something that would put yourself into a situation where you yourself would then need rescue.

After that, it depends on a lot of factors:
-how is the injured person doing? Are they in shock, weak, bleeding, unconscious, or are they stable and fully capable of taking care of themselves until a ride out arrives? Or is it uncertain?
-is it even possible to get help without leaving the injured person behind (e.g. does someone need to hike out to notify a rescue service because you have no cell/satellite communications.) And if so, it is dangerous to send someone to fetch help alone?
-is anyone in the party putting themselves in danger or at risk by staying with the injured?
-Does everyone need to stay behind to render assistance, or just a select few?
-is rescue even likely/possible to arrive before the estimated death of the injured party?

While it is odd in this situation that not a single one stayed behind, it could have been at the insistence of the injured person refusing help, a decision from the entire party that they wouldn't have enough food to delay/complete an exit of the canyon on their own, or the injured person becoming combative against their party (as that is more common than you might think), or even other reasons.

There is not enough info in the article to judge or blame anyone.

[outdoor_lover]

On the surface the choices made seem to go against conventional wisdom.

While it is odd in this situation that not a single one stayed behind,

Exactly, and yes, we certainly have very little to the story. And if the part of the story is true, where the rest of the party took the Apple device with them, then did the injured party not have any means of communication? What happens if the rescue team had gotten the wrong coordinates or gotten the coordinates wrong? I think some of us for sure know that has happened before. But again, tons of questions and no one can really "judge" anything from the few sentences that were reported. But I used this article to just pose the topic. I think it's an interesting discussion, possibly based on what others have experienced.

[xsproutx]

Yeh, lots of different ways and reasons to do things but I did think it was a bit odd that they took the device... on the flip side, I imagine the Grand Canyon guys are probably some of the most experienced/best in the biz and doesn't sound like they were in a very remote area anyway. Combine that with the fact they had days left in the trip means he had plenty of food and all his backpacking gear to keep warm at night and I guess it's not the worst

[FOTG]

@xsproutx

doesn't sound like they were in a very remote area anyway

Wait Kanab Creek is not remote? I’d be curious to know what you consider remote.

[outdoor_lover]

Combine that with the fact they had days left in the trip means he had plenty of food and all his backpacking gear to keep warm at night and I guess it's not the worst

I guess. But if the rescue had been delayed, it would have sucked to be out there alone with the use of only 1 arm. I imagine a "traumatic shoulder injury" would leave the arm and hand pretty much useless. Might still have use of the fingers I suppose.

[xsproutx]

@FOTG
Hah, you're right! I don't have much experience in the canyon and think I was just confusing it with BA creek in my head. Kanab is certainly a bit off the beaten path.

[RedRoxx44]

I agree not enough information. On one of my rare group hikes we were going on a meet up and hike out in Anza Borrego; Mortero palms to the Goat Canyon trestle and out the tracks. One group going in on the usual track route and myself and a young co worker going over from Mortero Palms. It's a bit of a rough route but nothing extreme. He jumped off a rock and twisted his ankle, screaming and holding his foot in the air. He calmed down; we looked at it. He decided he wanted to continue. I was against it, my Jeep was not that far away and I had ice packs there. As it was I had some ibuprofen, wrapped him, stuffed his foot back in his boot and instructed him to not remove it no matter what. Turns out he did make it; he did have an ankle fracture and one torn ligament, he missed a bit of work, my boss was furious with ME, and my face was on a poster in the lunch room with a big red circle and hash mark thru it for the remainder of the month.

[FOTG]

@xsproutx
lol I was like dang I’d generally call that area the standard for remote locations…

[ShatteredArm]

Having seen first hand satellite communication devices not working in some parts of Kanab Creek, I do think there's a good chance that the watch was useless in the specific location where the injury occurred, meaning they would've had to leave, and they would've had to take the watch. The internet seems really interested in skewering these people, but I'd like to hear their side of the story first, as there are possible reasons why leaving the hiker might have been the most logical thing to do.

[chumley]

Having seen first hand satellite communication devices not working

When contact for help was confirmed, the other four hikers continued on their backpacking trip

[outdoor_lover]

@ShatteredArm
I would love to hear their side of the story. It sounds like from the meager article like they had service where the injury occurred and then once they had confirmation that a rescue was coming, they left. But if they didn't have service and needed to go somewhere to get it, why would all 4 go for help? That's not really normal in case of an emergency. At least one person hangs back with the injured. With 4 healthy, it would make sense to send 2 for help and 2 to stay with the injured party. Everybody has a buddy.

[The_Eagle]

As all have said, not knowing the exact circumstances, all we can do is guess at this point. I know that if I was on a multiday backpack in the canyon with a group, that no doubt had been planned for some time and maybe traveled to from out of state..... and that I messed up on and got hurt (stable condition), after confirming the rescue message went through, I'd make the remainder of the group continue. I would not want to mess up the groups trip for something silly I did. More serious injury and no idea if help was coming, that's a totally different story.

[LindaAnn]

My initial inclination would be to not leave an injured or sick person behind, so generally I would be against that course of action. However, I can imagine plenty of scenarios where leaving someone behind would be okay or makes sense, so it’s difficult to judge without actually being there or knowing all the details. If something goes wrong after splitting up or leaving someone behind, that’s going to cause a lot of scrutiny.

Now, if the injured party is Bruce, I’m going to claim I didn’t even know he was part of the group to begin with

[nonot]

After searching the internet awhile and making the unfortunately choice to wade through vitriol and nonsense from dozens of judgmental people, only a little more information came to light. The guy injured his shoulder. In the next 4 hours the other members of his party located a spot in Kanab they could get a signal out, then afterwards the group helped transport him and his gear to that exact location and made sure he was setup with tent, sleeping bag, etc. Afterwards they left. So it isn't as if they abandoned him completely. This was a decision they arrived at over several hours. I would guess that after getting him setup and cozy and confirming that rescue was on the way, things played out very much like Mr. Eagle described for a non-serious injury, but I cannot confirm that.

[ShatteredArm]

@chumley
The sheriff's office said the call for help arrived four hours after the injury occurred. Based on that, it would seem like a strong possibility that they weren't able to get a message out at the actual location of the injury.

[The_Eagle]

@LindaAnn
Ouch....Don't you have another state to go to?

[LindaAnn]

@The_Eagle
Yes, AZ is still too hot, you’ll be rid of me for the next few weeks. I’ll try to not abandon anyone on a trail in ID if they get injured.

[FOTG]

FWIW

An injured hiker rescued from the Grand Canyon says his 4 friends were 'unjustly vilified' after officials falsely claimed the group left him behind

Officials said hikers left their injured friend behind in the Grand Canyon to keep backpacking.
But the injured hiker told Insider that was false and that his friends had done everything right.
Many news outlets picked up the story and hiker's friends were widely criticized online.

Officials said a hiker who was injured in Grand Canyon National Park last weekend had been left behind by his friends after they called in a rescue for him — but the hiker in question says that's not at all what happened and that his friends have been "unjustly vilified in the media."

"In my view, my friends did all the exact right things. They got me rescued," William Formanek told

Formanek said his friends did everything they could to get him rescued quickly and that he was "baffled" by how the story got mixed up.

Not hard to find a few articles trying to clear it all up. Sounds like some overly dramatic rescuers and typical media hype, plus social media created a story and scenario that was simply not based in reality.

edit: In related news, the Phoenix Fire Department is looking into permanently closing all hiking trails within the Phoenix metropolitan area in an effort to avoid a similar incident.