Water, Superstition Wilderness

[berryman3]

Planning a loop trip in the Superstions, second week in November, and we're trying to find reliable water. Route: Peralta Trailhead, Bluff Springs Trail to Dutchman Trail north (LeBarge Spring confirmed good), south to Red Tanks Trail (Brad's water confirmed good), Coffee Flats Trail, JF Trail 106 heading north, Peter's Trail 105 (water at junction with Dutchman's Trail, Charlebois Spring confirmed good), Dutchman's Trail, Peralta Trail south to Peralta Trailhead.

Specifically: Would like to find a water source on the Red Tanks Trail, Coffee Flats Trail, The JF Trail, Peter's Trail, and or Peralta Trail (Terrapin could also work as an alternative back to Peralta Trailhead). Folks, really appreciate any help, thanks!

[xsproutx]

I wouldn't count on anything reliable on Red Tank from Brad's Water down to Coffee Flat. Near the junction of those two, you have dripping spring which may/may not be something you'll be able to collect from. If you go West 1.5 miles, you'll get to Reeds Water which is a well; you'll need a cord and something to drop down it to collect the water, but it's good. Often .25 east of it there's water coming out of the ground but not reliable. Similarly, there's ussuuuuually flow up coffee flat around whetstone, but it's not something I'd rely on either. On Peters trail, Kane spring is generally reliable but can be a bit funky at times and it's close enough to Charlebois that I've rarely bothered. This time of year, there's nothing I'd trust on JF, especially with how dry a summer we've had.

You're never too far away from water west of red tank but east gets a bit tricky, especially this early in the hiking season. From the coffee flat/red tank junction to charleboi on that route (going counter clockwise) is what, 19 miles or so? I'm not aware of anything on that stretch that I'd 100% count on so unless you want to do the 19 miles in a day, probably would plan on dry camping that night so having a large water haul. No fun

[hikeaz]

There is often water in Randolph Cyn. The 'Red Tanks' are a short jaunt - Randolph Spring is a bit further. Dripping Spring is a pain and it is close to Reed's anyway.
Whisky Sp. is about 1/2 mile o/w off-route but has a nice camp with water.
It would be a hassle (we did this on a trans-Sups hike - [ triplog ] [ triplog ] [ triplog ] ) but you could cache water in advance at Woodbury or Tortilla to fill the void. With the added value of a resupply of other malted "supplies". Same goes if you STARTED at Tortilla witch would break up the dry stretch. Merely food-for-thought.

[nonot]

@berryman3
Along your route, you will pass fairly close to Bluff Spring, LaBarge spring, Whiskey spring, Brad's water, the Whetrock spring/Whetstone canyon intersection with Fraser canyon (not guaranteed to have water), the cattle troughs near Woodbury (can be gross/contaminated with cow feces), then a very long time and distance until the next reliable water... Kane spring, with Charley Boy spring probably as the last source.

Finding much other water along your route seems unlikely until we get a good winter rain storm where the creeks start actually flowing water.

I'd second hikeaz's recommendation to consider caching water at Woodbury trailhead for hiking your itinerary at this time of year (late fall before winter rains).

I think the OP and others have covered the other options that are of limited benefit to your itinerary:
-Dripping spring just drips
-Randolph Spring which is pretty far off your route,
-the Reeds Water Tortilla Flats windmill tank is pretty far off your route (difficult to access water - read triplogs or xsproutx's recommendation above).

[berryman3]

@xsproutx
Thanks, really appreciate the info!

[berryman3]

@hikeaz
Thanks, appreciate the triplog.

[berryman3]

@nonot
Thanks!

[big_load]

My approach on those long dry stretches is to bite the bullet and carry lots of extra water, especially at this time of year when it can still be very warm.

[berryman3]

@xsproutx
Thanks for the help. Looking at the Green Trails Map, do not see Reed's Water. With the east dry, we'll probably tweak the plan and head west at Dripping Springs junction and back to the trailhead.

[berryman3]

@hikeaz
Thanks for the triplogs. Thought about stashing water at Woodbury/Tortilla, but coming in from out of state and our driver does not have a high clearance vehicle. We may cut it short and head west at Dripping Springs Jct but did not see Reed's Water on the map.

[xsproutx]

@berryman3
Use this site by going to "plan" and "map". Zoom in on that region and you'll see an area where Coffee Flat goes slightly north with a label called "Randolph Canyon" and two water drops. One of those is Reeds Water; if you click the water drop, it brings up reports and you can see some more details that'll tell you how to collect. Good camping in the area, too, although if it's windy the windmill might annoy you (it's rusty). Using the "map" function to look at water sources is one of the most useful things on this site

Still plenty of ways to extend your trip and just do more trail on the west side! For example, your current plan doesn't do any of the trail in Boulder canyon/Cavalry/etc. You can modify your trip, still starting from Peralta, to head up Peralta, boulder canyon, cavalry, and continue on your same plan to add more miles/never be far from water. Lots of options and Boulder and Cavalry have some great scenery

[berryman3]

@xsproutx
Yeah, extending west sounds great. Any particular water sources you can recommend on Peralta, Boulder, and Cavalry?

[hikeaz]

You can avoid the climb up Bull Pass AND find water by traveling through Needle Canyon. Also LaBarge Box will have water. 2nd Water Spring will. (See below for confirmation) For bonus points, drop your backpack and hike Battleship.

[xsproutx]

Hackberry will have water, Needle Canyon will have water, LaBarge Box will, Second Water Spring will. Drop me a DM if you want to talk specific plansl; it's hard to give people advice/options without knowing their goals/miles per day/etc

[Heliops]

Here is some real time information from some trail volunteers.

Second Water Spring, normally rated as fair, is dry. There are a couple of small pools surrounding some reeds below the spring, but I would not recommend filtering unless you are desperate. Boulder Canyon is dry from Second Water trail to the junction with Dutchman.


Good news! Bluff Spring and La Barge Spring both have good water. All creeks and low lying areas along the way are dry.


The temporary rubber hose fix at Bluff Spring has been removed and tossed aside. Hikers headed to Bluff spring have beaten down a new path to the break in the pipe. The new path leaves the old path a few feet before you need to start ducking and crawling. You can walk upright on this new path right to where the pipe broke. I discovered the new route after ducking and crawling to the break. The spring is trickling out about a pint per minute or two.


The La Barge Spring box is surrounded by wildly overgrown vegetation. A trampled down path leads you from the creek to the spring box. The area above the spring box has been trimmed for easier access to the “fountain.” Good flow at about a quart per minute or two.

[berryman3]

@Heliops
Thanks, really appreciate the precise directions

[Iab]

Hi guys, first time poster but have been studying the forums for several months and super grateful for your insights! Given there haven’t been any new water reports on some springs in the area for months, can anyone advise the best way/place now to get water between bluff spring and weavers viewpoint, if I’m going looping past piñon/lone pine camp? Also would be grateful anyone can clue me into me local best practices for caching water at trailheads (hide it in advance? pay someone to drop it off same day? If the latter, would love to pay any of you to drop off a few gallons this Saturday)

I’m also wondering about the status of the following springs
- crystal spring
- charlebois spring
- pinon camp pools (almost certainly dry I’m sure but hoping…?)
- west boulder canyon
Or maybe y’all can suggest other springs or routes that can meet my goals: I fly into AZ this Thursday for a 3.25 day/3 night backpacking trip to experience west boulder canyon and piñon camp (red hills would be a nice bonus). Target mileage is about 35mi total. Ive sketched out the following route but want to make sure I’ll be able to refill water daily.

Friday (~10mi, 2-3k ft elevation gain)
• start the day in good season from Canyon Lake
• take boulder canyon trail 103 past battleship mountain. (5.2mi)
• follow boulder canyon trail to Calvary trail, into marsh valley (3.1mi)
• segue onto Dutchman’s trail to charlebois spring (1.4mi and some change)
• camp near charlebois spring [plans more flexible if there is rain in the 2wks before our trip?]

Saturday (10-12mi)
• charlebois spring to Crystal spring (likely dry?) on Dutchman’s trail (3.3mi)
• west one mile from crystal spring, to bluff spring trail (1mi) (QUESTION: looks like bluff spring had water as of a week or so ago, but how quickly do these springs dry out??)
• bluff spring trail to peralta trailhead. See if there is water in the parking lot (CAN WE CACHE WATER IN ADVANCE AT PERALTA TH? DO WE NEED TO HIDE IT?). (2mi)
• peralta canyon trail to Lone Pine camp / piñon camp (~3-4mi)

Sunday, and a little bit of Monday. (DITTO earlier question about how long without rain before springs’ water disappears again. 2nd water spring and weavers viewpoint had some water on 12/7, might it still be there on 12/17?)
• piñon camp to 104 trail by palomino mountain, pausing for water at Weavers ViewPoint (~3.9mi)
• 104 trail to bull pass (0.8mi)
• cross bull pass, then dog leg onto trail over the red hills (~3mi)
• come out of red hills into Calvary trail, hike back out through boulder canyon, stopping at 2nd Water Spring for water (6.8mi, and camp somewhere along the way, hiking out the last few miles the next morning)

[nonot]

Day 1:
After good winter rains, you will generally find running water or at least pools along the upper cavalry trail in the Marsh valley area, but if we haven't had enough rain then Charley boy is close nearby as a backup.

Charlesbois spring always has water. It is one of the few entirely reliable springs in the Western Superstitions.

West Boulder canyon itself is generally dry until you go way up near Willow spring which is way off trail and very far from your itinerary.

Day 2:
I have never seen water at Crystal Spring, but Bluff spring is close nearby, however the pipe is likely broken so you need to do some minor off trail to get to Bluff Spring itself. I wouldn't worry about Bluff spring itself drying out, but people often get fooled by the dry Bluff Spring concrete watering trough due to the broken pipe issue.

There will be no water near Peralta parking lot. You can cache water there but hide it well as it is a busy area with lots of people, some of whom behave badly. (Make sure to haul out any trash or containers, there are no garbage cans.)

There is no water at Weaver's viewpoint, that is a high point on a ridge. However going up Perlta trail there are sometimes pools in Peralta canyon. Choose carefully though.

It is possible East Boulder canyon near Pinon camp will have pools of water if it has rained recently, but I wouldn't count on it until someone enters a water report to that extent.

Day 3+:
Near where 102 meets 104 or along that stretch of 104 there is sometimes water but it depends on previous rain. Needs a water report though to confirm this before I would count on it.

Needle canyon often has pools after rain, but the upper section you would be going through is dryer than the lower section so pools are less likely.

I would reiterate the comment above about Marsh Valley and Charlesbois in this area as your most reliable water source.