Tonto FS Travel Management

[CannondaleKid]

While the FINAL MVUM (Motor Vehicle Use Map) for Tonto has not been released, I came across the FAQ's for Travel Management Planning on the Tonto National Forest.

I believe these three FAQ's have relevance to the HAZ community:

#7. I’ve heard that the Cherry Creek Road will be closed? Why?
The Cherry Creek Road (FSR 203) east of State Route 288 is partially within the Sierra Ancha Wilderness designated boundary. The Wilderness Act does not permit motorized travel in designated wilderness. South of Devil’s Canyon, and north of PB Springs will be barricaded prohibiting motorized travel.
In other words, no more vehicle travel allowed between Devil's Chasm & PB Springs.

#8. I heard that the Powerline Road will be closed. Why?
A portion of the Powerline Road (FSR 393) is within the designated Maztazal Wilderness boundary. The Wilderness Act does not permit motorized travel in designated wilderness. FSR 393 is northeast of Bartlett Lake. Less than one mile near Alder Springs will be physically blocked, prohibiting motor vehicle use.
Now if that isn't crazy I don't know what is... while FSR 393 will be open to 'high clearance' vehicles, there will no longer be no legal way to GET to it!
Previously there were three legal options to reach it by 4WD vehicle:
A. No access from old Sunflower Highway (Wilderness issue @Alder Spring)
B. No access from Log Corral (FSR 3456) as that will be legal only for dirt-bikes
C. No access from crossing near Bartlett Lake because that road will be designated 'Administration Use Only'

#9. Will the road to Aztec Peak be closed? Why
The Road to Aztec Peak (FSR 487) will be closed where it enters the Sierra Ancha Wilderness. The road will be gated, prohibiting motorized access for the general public. The route provides the only access to the Murphy Ranch. The landowners will be authorized access to their private property via FSR 487. Federal law permits access to private land within federal boundaries.
So no more PUBLIC vehicle travel allowed past Moody TH to Aztec Peak or Murphy Ranch due to a 1-mile segment of Wilderness overlapping the road.

Although there has been talk of possible assistance from our Senators/Representatives in reference to #7 & #8, in neither case did it make any difference.
RE: #7: Personally I'm ambivalent about Cherry Creek Road... yeah it would be nice to have more solace out that way, but I've always enjoyed the drive. (Besides, at least one Camp Grasshopper will no longer be a 'car-camping' site.)
RE: #8: But for FSR 393? It simply makes no sense whatsoever! Supposedly some folks well-connected with the FS were told earlier that this was a 'mistake that would be fixed' but now it appears the mistake will be made permanent.

[nonot]

-post deleted -

Reason: incorrect information

[nonot]

@Grasshopper
Hank, at the link you provided, you can download the MVUMs.

Click the project website link
Open the decision folder
Download the MVUMs

This is good info, as I thought (incorrectly) Tonto abandoned the MVUM effort without finalizing it.

You will observe in the Sierra Ancha (Map 4), FR203 was indeed designated for closure between the first and last points it crossed the wilderness boundary.

[CannondaleKid]

Taking a close look at the 'new' Sierra Ancha map, the blocked off section of Forest Road 203 has been renamed 203B.
So... these coordinates should be pretty close to where the road has been closed.
North End of 203B: 33.9285743 -110.9220071 (About a mile South of the PB Ranch?)
South End of 203B: 33.8242067 -110.8584408 (Just past Devil's Chasm TH?)
From what I understood previously was that the South blockage would be slightly farther North.
I guess it's time to take a drive (or two) to find out exactly where.

[FOTG]

@CannondaleKid
Wow you really think they closed it right there before Devils Chasm? I don't necessarily hate it. I was not a fan of the closure at Workman Falls on the road up on Aztec, so I do not want to come off as inconsistent, but I am evolving some on prehistoric stuff and if it helps to make the access to those sites a little tougher, I am generally ok with that. Especially, if it means maintaining the actual wilderness boundaries.

[big_load]

I'll have to think some more about this. I hope there's some room to park near the closure by Devil's Chasm. I'm not done with that place yet.

[FOTG]

@big_load
I was trying to look on google earth to see if there was a dirt lot there now, or anything like that, but I did not see anything. I will look a little closer tomorrow.

[chumley]

Especially, if it means maintaining the actual wilderness boundaries.

Both of those roads were established and in use when the wilderness was designated. In my opinion, it seems like the boundaries were incorrectly drawn from the beginning. Wildernesses have been designated in areas that resulted in previously open roads being closed, but the boundaries as they were drawn in 1964 for the Ancha have never made sense to me.

[big_load]

@FOTG

Thanks, I'll stay tuned.

[RedRoxx44]

@CannondaleKid
There is a present gate maybe a mile south of PB turnoff. There is parking just past the gate ( and a nice old road to take you into Cherry Creek) but not much before the gate unless they modified it. There is a 4wd only washout not too far past the cabin turn off as of last year. The only downside I can see is I hope idiots don't decide to backpack into the ruins sites and set up camp where they shouldn't.

[CannondaleKid]

Wow you really think they closed it right there before Devils Chasm?

... slightly after Devils Chasm when traveling North.
I hope not, but again until someone is physically there and can confirm it (or somewhere farther North) we won't know.

Especially, if it means maintaining the actual wilderness boundaries.

And again, changes, variations and updates to the various maps over time have seriously muddied-the-waters.
For instance:
Using Route Editor, take a close look at the drawn boundaries at Devil's Chasm where FR 203 turns the corner.
Now compare it with the HAZ Topo overlay (which has been around a long time) and FS Topo overlay (which supposedly was updated within the last ten years?).
HAZ Topo shows the Wilderness boundary cutting across a short snippet of FR 203, whereas FS Topo does NOT, with the boundary fractionally West of FR 203.

BTW, don't waste the time comparing US Topo and Open Topo maps as their boundary lines are simplified so much using straight lines between points quite far apart, it's more like a suggestion where the boundary line runs.

Whatever, until I see it for myself (or someone provides a photo of the gate with coordinates), it's all just speculation.
As much as I'd like to take a trip out there right now and put the speculation to rest, mid-to-late April looks to be the soonest likely. I'll be sure to post what I find.

[CannondaleKid]

There is a present gate maybe a mile south of PB turnoff.

Thanks! Good to know.

[chumley]

Well, as of November, FR487 to Aztec Peak has not been closed and gated at the wilderness boundary. The old gate below the falls may be locked for snow currently, but that's been a seasonal thing for as long as I can remember.

[Grasshopper]

Regarding the Tonto NF "Cherry Creek Road (FR203)" closure section, I have been working on this Closure Map--> [ Tonto NF FR203 Vehicle Close Section ] since Q2-YR2016

This now revised 3/28/24 update includes what I now know based on present forum postings to date. Final revisions will be incorporated after someone is able to physically visit this section of FR203 and provide exact waypoint coordinates for the locations of the now assumed two locked gates (at the North and South Section Ends).

[chumley]

Lots of interests have been working on this topic for many years now. In a nutshell, Tonto NF believes they do not have the authority to maintain motorized travel on the roads inside the designated wilderness, nor do they have the authority to revise the wilderness boundaries.

Government agencies including AZGFD, and Gila County, in addition to numerous private groups representing a wide range of uses has put some effort into petitioning the US Congress to revise the boundaries, most often citing the reason being errors in mapping from the original intent of the boundaries.

At issue is that the Sierra Ancha Wilderness was "automatically" created via the 1964 Wilderness Act because it existed previously as a "Wild" area. The last map of the Wild area was published in 1951, and looks a lot like what I used to draw with crayons on a paper placemat at Denny's as a kid. It's not exactly precise.

1951 official map

In 1965, the map of the wilderness was submitted based on the 1951 wild area map. It was similarly imprecise.

Perhaps the implementation of these closures will generate further public support for congressional action to maintain these motor vehicle routes? We shall see.

A particularly well-researched and cited appeal to change was presented to Rep. Gosar in 2018 by a group of concerned citizens. I'm attaching the letter here as it provides a wealth of useful information and background, and the original link may be lost over time (shared by the Arizona Sportsmen for Wildlife Conservation at https://azsfwc.org/category/tonto-nf-planning/)

[FOTG]

@chumley
Well if the esteemed Paul Gosar says the boundaries should be redrawn, we better get on that. ;)

[chumley]

@FOTG I don't think he gives a flying crap about it, but since he was the Congressional representative for the district in which all of this is taking place, he was probably an appropriate person to petition at that time. After recent redistricting, the Sierra Ancha are not in his district anymore (it is now Eli Crane).

[RedRoxx44]

I want one--- [ youtube video ] ; not perfect and will need replacement blades but I just don't have the strength in my shoulders anymore to make regular ones work.

[CannondaleKid]

After numerous phone calls to various offices and FS personnel I finally got to actually speak with someone who should have the most accurate information, the Trails/Wilderness Coordinator, Ron Turner.

Here's the deal... for the moment anyway.
1. Gates WILL be installed to block vehicles from entering the wilderness from the South and North in the near future.
2. CURRENTLY there are NO GATES along Forest Road 203. (At least none authorized by the FS.)
3. The coordinator is currently working with the FS engineering department to work out all the details... nitty-gritty stuff like:
- a. What type of gates will be installed
- b. Where the gates will be installed
- c. What type of equipment will be required for installation
- d. Logistics of getting the required equipment to the proposed gate locations
- e. When the installations will take place

Ron will contact me once the details have been worked out, at which time I will pass the information on to Joe so the descriptions/directions for any hikes affected by the closures can be updated.

[Nighthiker]

My USFS Sierra Ancha Wilderness map inventory (1974) indicates the Cherry Creek Road is located inside the Wilderness Boundary at two locations. Down thru the years the forest service has closed these "Cherry Stem" roads, resulting in the forest service developing a travel management plan.