November section hike

[rmoss24331]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum. I live out of state and will be traveling to AZ in November. I'm looking to fit in a few days on the trail and was hoping to get some advice on favorite passages for Mid-November. I've looked at starting with passage 26 and heading NOBO for 4 days, 3 nights on the trail, or if that area is prone to decent snowfall by then, I've also looked at starting further south around passage 11 and heading NOBO, same number of days on trail.

I'm an experienced backpacker, however, this is my first trip to AZ and appreciate any recommendations.
I'm also looking for help to get a ride back from my end point to the TH I start at. Thumb up is an option but I'm sure there are great trail associates willing to help out and having a planned return ride in advance is preferred.

P.S. I've spent a ton of time already on the AZA site for planning resources.

[chumley]

@rmoss24331
Segments 13-17 covers the lowest elevations of the trail spanning terrain that is primarily low desert. If you're coming from the midwest, perhaps open views, saguaros, and other desert scrub plants are appealing. I think most AZT hikers would say that this is not the most interesting or enjoyable part of the trail. Obviously, opinions vary.

26-27 are through nice wooded pine country, but once you are above the Mogollon Rim continuing toward Flagstaff, the route is not particularly interesting in my opinion, covering dozens of miles of mostly flat terrain at 6500-7500 feet. It's unlikely to have snowed there in November (or if it has it would be rare to be deep enough to prevent passage), but nighttime lows at that elevation in November are commonly in the low 20s. As a rough guide, an average temperature in mid-November at 5,000 feet will drop to around 30 at night. Higher will be colder. If that's a factor, stick to the lower elevation segments.

If it was me, I'd probably look at something in the 18-26 range. There is much more elevation change on these segments though, so if that's a negative for you, disregard my input completely! I also believe that the second half of 19 was severely affected by wildfire this summer and may not be passable, or if it is, might be a depressing moonscape, so I'd make sure to investigate that before heading out.

Getting rides to the start of 18, 22, and 26 are probably the easiest access points. Good luck and I hope you enjoy your visit.

[xsproutx]

I think most AZT hikers would say that this is not the most interesting or enjoyable part of the trail.

I agree with 13-15 but 16/17 are commonly cited as favourite passages outside of the GC! Otherwise, I agree with your assessment.

OP, if you can finagle the transportation, 16-18, going SOBO, would be a great stretch of trail. The northern TH of 17 and southern end of 16 are easy enough to arrange rides but the Northern end of 18 can be a little more difficult, which is one of the reasons I'd start there. The sections Chums mentions, particularly 22-26, are quite nice but are more "difficult" and logistics can be a bit harder. Logistical difficulty depends on how many miles per day you plan on hiking

[nonot]

November is a difficult time of the year to make a single plan this far in advance when you consider the weather. My suggestion would be to make 3 plans: a low elevation plan (e.g. a desert hike around 2000 ft or below for average elevation), a middle plan (e.g. Juniper scrubland maybe near 4500 ft average) , and a high elevation plan (e.g. Pine forests at 6500-7000 ft average elevation). That way, when you travel here you will have something reasonable regardless of whether we are in a heat wave, a freezing wave, or if it is more or less normal/average for that time of year. It's about 4 degrees for every 1000 ft change in elevation.

While I haven't hiked all the AZT yet, my favorite segments of trail are those to the north of Pine and the Pine Trailhead (26 and 27), climbing up to the Mogollon rim and maybe the first 30ish miles after that. However around November you start to run into the likelihood that there could already be accumulated snow or at least mostly muddy roads from melted snow/rain, and the roads up north will mostly be closed and the trails not generally in good shape for hiking. Additionally, there is the likelihood of temps getting far below freezing temps at night, which can be difficult for some to manage, which is why having medium and low elevation alternatives are a good idea.

[rmoss24331]

@chumley
Thanks! That's good feedback. I prefer mountain terrain to low dessert terrain. The cold is not a deterrent, so I'll make sure to look at some of those passages you mentioned, probably starting with passage 20 and north.

[rmoss24331]

@xsproutx
Thanks! I'll look into 16-18 as an option as well. I'll try to start and end at TH's that are "easier" to coordinate travel logistics. Miles per day will sort of depend on the difficulty of the passages we end up at. I'm used to anything from 8-20 miles per day all depending on the conditions and of course the overall mileage targeted, beyond 20 tends to wear on me but can be done for a short trip like this.

Are any of the options you've suggested more likely than others to have "easy" water sources in November. I've heard that can be a hard time of year for water.

[xsproutx]

@rmoss24331

So basically everything up to the northern part of passage 26 is going to be low/mid-desert. The low deserts have sky islands, though, and general mountainous regions like the mazzies (21-23). Based on what you're saying and reading between the lines, you'll likely find 12-14 miles to be the sweet spot for anything below passage 26 as it's typically pretty rocky with a lot of ups and downs. North of 26, it's pretty easy to bang out big days as it is much flatter and you're hiking on pine duff mostly vs rocks. While it's at higher elevation (generally above 7k), it's not mountain terrain for the most part, though. Again, you're mostly hiking through the pines which is lovely, of course, but I prefer the southern terrain is it is more mountainous and, frankly, it's AZ... you can get pines all over but the desert? Not so much.

For water, if you stick to the AZT, it's rare that any part of the trail goes more than 8-10 miles without water and often times it's more frequent. Note, depending on what you're used to you may not think all these water sources are, well, great. They filter fine, though. It's just part of the experience. It is true that it can be trickier that time of year but the math still maths, mostly. Frankly the last couple of years have seen really wet falls for us, too, so maybe that'll happen again this year. You can use HikeAZ to see water reports (goto the "plan" then "map" part) or download farout and pay for the AZT maps; if you come in november, you'll have the benefit of seeing what the SOBO hikers have reported.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@rmoss24331
I'm an inexperienced backpacker. (A little more than a year.) Have done a few Sections near/in the Mazatzals. And this spring, I did 17 & 16, sobo. And some of GET #3 after that.

So far the most gorgeous scenery that I've seen is the part of 16 south of the Water Collector to the Gila. Some really deep gorges. (As I used to fly a small plane over the Mazatzals at 7500', aerial views from the ground don't excite me.)

So that's my 2 cents. I don't know how the Gila flows in the fall. But if it's flowing and if the water isn't full of fertilizer (some people recommend a Grayl), then you would have water for the east-west part of 16. I imagine the Water Collector will still have water. So that leaves the section north-south to Picketpost.

Since you're experienced, you could make a loop of it using the GET #3. (I kept losing the trail and one descent was too dangerous for me.) There's water at White Canyon.

Otherwise, the loop from Barnhardt TH, Y Bar, MDT to Rock Creek/Half Moon back shows you the Mazatzals and mitigates your ride issue.

My Trip Reports detail a lot for both. (Includes the "two white relectors" that blinked.)