Petroglyphs and Google Lens

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Hansenaz
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Petroglyphs and Google Lens

Post by Hansenaz »

A few years ago I wondered if Google Lens could help me know if a petroglyph I saw is already posted somewhere on the internet. It could not.

I know some HAZ people use Google lens to identify plants. Seems useful.

I tried again recently on petroglyphs and got better results. I thought i'd try a "semi-systematic" test of it's capability. I also noticed that Microsoft's Bing offers image search capability so I included it in the test. Here are the conclusions:
  • Google Lens does a good job finding matches to a submitted petroglyph picture. It’s becoming a useful tool for petroglyph “study”.
    It’s far from perfect though missing many known matches and apparently weighting some websites above others.
    Orientation and sampling area can affect GL results (no surprise).
    Bing Image Search is far behind but gets it right now and then.
The "report" with pictures is on my Google Drive https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hvT-hj ... sp=sharing
Last edited by Hansenaz on May 02 2025 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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chumley
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Re: Petroglyphs and Google Lens

Post by chumley »

@Hansenaz This is a fascinating study. :app:

The AI response, as is often the case, is comically wrong. But then again, it scrapes data posted by humans who are often comically wrong, and simply doesn't know any better.

As for the actual photograph searches, I think it has a very difficult time discerning between images that are not "pixel-for-pixel" matches. Cropping, angle, shadows, exposure, color, etc. all make one image of the same thing look different from another image of the same thing ... to a computer.

I think the visual matching has gotten much better than it used to be, but more often than not, I believe that the images that return as potential matches are based more on the text associated with the image than the image pixels. Images on HAZ that might return a result include those with labels assigned identifying the style ("gila petroglyph", etc.), the caption or photoset name, or even the name of the user who posts it. — Google recognizes that "hansenaz" is associated with numerous web pages containing photographs with images that regularly include words like "petroglyph" or "rock art", therefore there is a higher likelihood that other pages that include text with hansenaz and have similar visual patterns are potential matches. But the image search relies heavily on the text which appears together with the images.

Copyright owners have provided basically all recorded media (music, movies, tv shows) to allow automated systems to detect when somebody uses their content without permission. This is why people regularly alter images by reversing them, speeding or slowing audio, or adding a second soundtrack over an existing soundtrack. It changes the digital signature so it doesn't appear to be an exact match anymore. Each photograph we take is unique from the beginning, even if the subject is the same. The digital signature is ... different.

A tool you see here from time-to-time is the augmented reality of peak finder apps. The topography of the entire US has been digitized so that when you look through your phone from a specific location, it can easily display the landscape around you and identify those geographic features. And yet, despite that data being available, I've yet to find a reliable source that can take a random photo of a random landscape and identify the location and the landmarks. That technology is likely to be reliable before a glyph-identifier because we already have the fully digitized topographical data compiled and available whereas the countless glyphs are not cataloged in such a way.

I enjoyed your research. It will be interesting to see how the technology improves in the next few years. I suspect it will get much, much better, and possibly very quickly.

* Next time, make sure to add a banana for scale. :)
I'm not sure what my spirit animal is, but I'm confident it has rabies.
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Hansenaz
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Re: Petroglyphs and Google Lens

Post by Hansenaz »

@chumley
That's an impressively quick reading and thorough comment.

Your point about possible associated text, location, user name, etc. is interesting and may enter into it. I didn't think about that but I don't think there's much evidence that those things affected my search. When GL came up with a location it was hallucinating - nothing in the best image match it found that would suggest those locations. If it was "HansenAZ knowledgeable" it would have only guessed Arizona.

But I'm really focussed on matching the specific petroglyph. I'd think the first difficulties would be differences in the pictures: size, orientation, lighting, etc. and of course the effects of extraneous "detractors" (background details, foreground details, shadows, etc.). Based on my test results, GL does fairly well with differences in size, and some significant differences in background and foreground. It has some problems with orientation. I wonder if a searcher, might want to submit a few different rotations?

A mystery though is why it selects imperfect matches when perfect ones are available (the exact target picture). But sometimes it finds the exact target (even very recent posted ones). There's a randomness to it. Could be that it has some search hierarchy (e.g. most popular sites first) and if it finds a good enough match it stops and gives you the 20 best it's found at that point. Something like that. Would explain it showing close matches but not exact. Sometimes it doesn't find a known existing match - timed out of the search?

It's also a mystery why it found an exact match posted a few day ago for one case, but missed three similar ones.

But I agree it's likely to get much better and it already has come a long way.
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chumley
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Re: Petroglyphs and Google Lens

Post by chumley »

Hansenaz wrote: Could be that it has some search hierarchy (e.g. most popular sites first)
I’d be curious if your results are the same in so-called private mode or if you perform the same search from another browser such as duckduck or brave. :-k
I'm not sure what my spirit animal is, but I'm confident it has rabies.
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GeeEss
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Re: Petroglyphs and Google Lens

Post by GeeEss »

@Hansenaz
There are a few plant identifier apps out there, and my impression is that they all have merit. For reasons I cannot adequately articulate, I just never use them. For one thing I am not the most phone-friendly person around (I always lug a big DSLR camera around), but another, it just seems too easy. I guess I would rather do the math than use a calculator. But I'll try to set all that aside and take a close look when I have adequate time and focus.
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Hansenaz
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Re: Petroglyphs and Google Lens

Post by Hansenaz »

@chumley
I'll give it a try but I'm thinking that hierarchy thing will be on the Google search side
@GeeEss
I'm likely less of a phone guy than you. I'm talking about post-hike work on a laptop.
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Re: Petroglyphs and Google Lens

Post by GeeEss »

I've been playing just a bit with Bing, and it seems REALLY flaky. Results vary from one identical attempt to another, and results change (too) dramatically upon adjusting the search area. In one instance I tightened the search area to include only a single large shield glyph, and that eliminated all search results. So it's an interesting idea, but has a long ways to go. I'll give it a 3/10 for accuracy, and 1/10 (or less) for consistency
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Hansenaz
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Re: Petroglyphs and Google Lens

Post by Hansenaz »

@GeeEss
Forget Bing...try Google Lens.

A quick counting of my results:
29 glyphs tested
GL matched 20
Bing IS matched 4
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