Im so lost! Why is it such a big deal Going off trail?

AZ_Hiker · Post by **AZ_Hiker** » Oct 07 2003 11:04 am

Im sure it would be easy to trun this in to an angry fight, but I still think its worth talking about.

I have not been in Arizona long. I am still learning about hiking here as apposed to the south or the northwest. so that being said..

I dont understand why people here seem to get bent when someone says "I was off trail".. how did a "trail" get started in the first place, I mean someone had to do it first.. right?

there have been a few adventures I have had that I know some could learn form but I wont post them here because of how some act here. Weather its getting a little lost or not wearing the right gear or whatever the adversity I have come across... I have learned so far that here is not the place to talk about it because some would rather flame then add..

is this a place to take and learn from others?

The deset is an indiscriminate executioner. there is a lot I have learned and some really cool people I have meet here. But there is always something more to learn. Do some of you tho, think you have it all figured out? and therefore have some kind of a "right" to carve up someone for making a mistake?

Like I said some people here are really encouraging and helpful so this not directed at everyone.. but some could be a little more helpful and constructive instead of being so quick to point out mistakes..

of course this is just my opinion.. but the goal here I thought was not to have everyone doing exactly the same thing. everyone enjoys the outdoors in a different way. But the goal here should be that we all get back safely with the good the bad and the ugly so that all my learn form that experance. again JMO..

AZhiker.

arizonaheat · Post by **arizonaheat** » Oct 09 2003 7:56 pm

If you fail to listen to the desert/mountain/canyon it will be at your own peril.Like it is capable of creating a set of circumstances that are varied and changing. Does that make any sense?

It makes perfect sense to me, as I can communicate directly with the Supes. I know a lot of people think I'm crazy, but so be it. You are absolutely right Pfredricks you have to listen, but not all are capable of hearing as they lack the true connection that so few have. Those of you that have it know what I'm talking about, those of you that don't, won't ever understand, and will think the rest of us are nuts

HikerInGilbert · Post by **HikerInGilbert** » Oct 09 2003 8:27 pm

Hmmm. Interesting thread.

The Desert can deal a whole multitude of hands to anyone who ventures out in it. Nobody can predict what "Ma Nature" is going to dole out to the suspecting, or unsuspecting.

All ANYONE can do to prepare for what Nature has in store for them is to do their best. Pack accordingly to the best of their ability. Prepare as mentally as possible.

I can safely assume that everyone who has contributed to this thread has been caught "out of place" at one time, or another. Probably multitudes of times. I have. You deal with it the best you can at the time. Good or Bad. It will always be a learning experience.

Nobody... I mean NOBODY... was born into venturing. It's a learned trait just like everything else. Some lessons are harsh, some are lesser, most stick with you forever. Never to be done again, or always repeated. Everyone has their own threshold. It's recognizing those lessons that counts for most of what life hands out. A person has to know their limitations before dealing with anything nature has to offer.

Abe · Post by **Abe** » Oct 09 2003 8:51 pm

HikerInGilbert wrote: I can safely assume that everyone who has contributed to this thread has been caught "out of place" at one time, or another. Probably multitudes of times. I have. You deal with it the best you can at the time. Good or Bad. It will always be a learning experience.

Amen, HikerInGilbert! You said it.
You did fine AZ_Hiker, you made it home. And you can learn from your experience, as well as picking up tips on the HAZ. And after that, it may happen again when you go out!

It happens to me every once in a while, like this last July; mis-calculated, mis-judged, mis-planned, mis-placed.

Oh yes, I've hiked off the trail, brush stomped, bushwhacked, tundra stomped a time or two......or three....maybe four.......maybe......

Billy · Post by **Billy** » Oct 09 2003 10:53 pm

Matt Gilbert said:

"I think either way you look at nature, it still creates a feeling of awe and respect, and thats what counts."

I love that.............what you said right there, is very powerful!

sherileeaz · Post by **sherileeaz** » Oct 09 2003 11:38 pm

HikerInGilbert wrote:Hmmm. Interesting thread.

The Desert can deal a whole multitude of hands to anyone who ventures out in it. Nobody can predict what "Ma Nature" is going to dole out to the suspecting, or unsuspecting.

All ANYONE can do to prepare for what Nature has in store for them is to do their best. Pack accordingly to the best of their ability. Prepare as mentally as possible.

I can safely assume that everyone who has contributed to this thread has been caught "out of place" at one time, or another. Probably multitudes of times. I have. You deal with it the best you can at the time. Good or Bad. It will always be a learning experience.

Nobody... I mean NOBODY... was born into venturing. It's a learned trait just like everything else. Some lessons are harsh, some are lesser, most stick with you forever. Never to be done again, or always repeated. Everyone has their own threshold. It's recognizing those lessons that counts for most of what life hands out. A person has to know their limitations before dealing with anything nature has to offer.

I agree with HikerinGilbert. (ok this may be a first!) But he makes sense (that IS a first)

All kidding aside. Good post, good advice.

Sherileeaz

HikerInGilbert · Post by **HikerInGilbert** » Oct 09 2003 11:46 pm

sherileeaz wrote:I agree with HikerinGilbert. (ok this may be a first!) But he makes sense (that IS a first)

All kidding aside. Good post, good advice.

Ummm... wait... let me rethink my comments...

No way... Sheri agrees with me??

I'm lost...

arizonaheat · Post by **arizonaheat** » Oct 10 2003 5:04 am

I can safely assume that everyone who has contributed to this thread has been caught "out of place" at one time, or another. Probably multitudes of times. I have. You deal with it the best you can at the time. Good or Bad. It will always be a learning experience.

Amen to that.

Great post HikerInGilbert, very well said and so very true.

sherileeaz · Post by **sherileeaz** » Oct 10 2003 6:23 am

HikerInGilbert wrote:
sherileeaz wrote:I agree with HikerinGilbert. (ok this may be a first!) But he makes sense (that IS a first)

All kidding aside. Good post, good advice.
Ummm... wait... let me rethink my comments...

No way... Sheri agrees with me??

I'm lost...

Well, maybe since you turned a year older, a bit wiser too???
We can only hope!! HAHA!

Sherileeaz

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Oct 10 2003 8:05 am

MaryPhyl wrote:What is the rationale for not hiking on game trails? I often seek them out.

I'm not entirely positive, but I think the idea is that too many people following a game trail will eventually beat it into a people trail.

pfredricks · Post by **pfredricks** » Oct 10 2003 8:20 am

Yippers hiker in gilbert-nicely said!
great thread and great contributions

I love quotes and thought that I would add this one.

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." — Evan Hardin.

Daryl · Post by **Daryl** » Oct 10 2003 9:56 am

I kinda thought the reason for staying off game trails was because the human scent you leave on the trail will scare away the game, disrupt their habits and then they will make new game trails.
The beating a path thing makes sence also. Maybe it's both?

any LNT experts out there?

sherileeaz · Post by **sherileeaz** » Oct 10 2003 2:35 pm

pfredricks wrote: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." — Evan Hardin.

Isn't it the truth!! Good quote!

Sherileeaz

HikerInGilbert · Post by **HikerInGilbert** » Oct 12 2003 8:11 pm

sherileeaz wrote: Well, maybe since you turned a year older, a bit wiser too???
We can only hope!! HAHA!

Sherileeaz

Haayyy. Leave the age thing out of this. Ok "Ol' (read older, of course) Lady"?

I've learned a whole slew of things the past year or so... Thanks. Yeah, I'm a bit wiser I think. That's a real good thing.

ADGibson · Post by **ADGibson** » Oct 12 2003 8:33 pm

AZ_Hiker wrote:who here has never been lost? even if it was only for a half and hour?..

I was lost on my grandparent's land in VA when I was about 14. I was lost for about 45 mins. It was the thickest forest I have ever seen. Lot's of vines and thick brush. Only thing that saved me is I heard an air conditioner on someones trailer turn on. I couldn't see it but worked my way there and got on a road from there. I didn't take a compass or map and not enough water. I wasn't planning but to go a little ways into the forest and got lost.
That was a valuable lesson for me. Never overestimate your abilities. Always go out prepared.

I want to hear about what happened. We can learn from what happened. No matter how you prepare sometimes factors beyond our control will make a fun trip into a fight for survival. It even happens to rescue teams so we are not special.

Share your story. I will not flame you. I will take notes for my own adventures.

sherileeaz · Post by **sherileeaz** » Oct 12 2003 9:19 pm

HikerInGilbert wrote:
sherileeaz wrote: Well, maybe since you turned a year older, a bit wiser too???
We can only hope!! HAHA!

Sherileeaz
Haayyy. Leave the age thing out of this. Ok "Ol' (read older, of course) Lady"?

I've learned a whole slew of things the past year or so... Thanks. Yeah, I'm a bit wiser I think. That's a real good thing.

Yeah, that's a REAL good thing!! And as far as me being older, I know you've learned to respect your elders!! lol Or else! muhaha OMG, I feel really old having said THAT! yuk!

Ok lets make a truce to end this thread cause this age things is, well, a matter of age. (how profound ey?) :roll: Not that I won't mention it on a trail when hiking with you! LOL But we'll keep this thread on the subject which was??? Oh gawd, I AM old!! I can't remember! Oh wait, yeah, being lost. Ummm I'm lost... *rambling on and on*

Sherileeaz (always older, always wiser than HikerinGilbert, not that we are keeping track or anything like that)

AZ_Hiker · Post by **AZ_Hiker** » Oct 13 2003 3:36 pm

what i learned about this trip... don't take 40 lbs to hells gate..

there are things I could have done .. taking an extra liter of water would have helped.. I started with 4 but with me and the way I consume water and sweet.. 5 would have been much much better. again tho.. it was much hotter then forcased

I could see the storm coming in.. but how many times have we all see that this year and not a drop of water.. water was the biggest factor here. I was in serious need to keep from going into heat stroke. so if I wait and see if it was going to rain, what if my condition gets worse wile I wait? having seen so many monsoons this year that did not produce was.. maybe this instance experience was working against me..

anyone that has been to hellsgate knows the last 1500 feet down and especially the last 600 to 800 feet are the hardest. when its described as being very steep they mean VERY!!

So I was in need of water fast.. the trail got vary steep and loose. add to that a hard hard rain.. that was my problem.. I fell in the loose rock and it could have been worse. I grabbed on to a branch or something.. but you know when you start to fall how your whole body clinchs in to a rock and you try to catch yourself? thats what I did and thats how I hurt my leg..

now i'm at the bottom.. the rain is pouring and i'm hurt.. I thought right then that it was worst that it really was. I was thinking there is no way I will be able to make that climb to get out. but I had pressing needs.. I needed water and I needed to get my gear out of the rain.. found a small tree, droped my pack, grabbed my poncho and through over it.. got under that and got my filter out and hobbled down to the stream. I was already soaked so I was not worried about getting any more wet.. i couldn't have been more wet.

I did have a few problems now tho.. my whole body.. every muscle was cramping.. the fall and the lack of water and the adrenalin were all factors in that.. but I could not take a step without cramps in my legs aswell as my arms.. I made my way down, sat on a rock and as fast as I was able I filtered a liter, sat there and drank it slowly.. then I got 2 more and vary slowly.. made my way back up to my pack..

I got my tent up and me the 2 liters and my sleeping bad were inside.. I layed there for about an hour just listening to the rain and trying not to move anymore then I had to. getting as much water in me without making myself more sick.

the rain stoped.. my cramps were gone so i went out and forced myself to eat something..I also hung a line to put wet stuff on and changed in to some dry things. tryed to put my camp in to some kind of order, I mean even feeling as bad as I was, you still have to have a little pride:) all this time mind you, I was limping very badly on my right leg.

it was getting dark, I through up my supper YUCK!!.. and went to bed:) I did not sleep well, I had to much on my mind. like how bad is my leg? did I break something? how am I going to get back up that trail in the morning? Is there anything I can do to make that easer? will my body recover enough to even attemp to get out in the morning? Who are the seahawks going to draft in the first round? and why is the dove the bird of peach anyway?

After a very restless nights sleep.. I thought my leg was better. I could walk with only a slight limp. now the problem of water and how much will my body need to get back. I used to much on the way in. I will have to do a better job on the way out. I also thought that if I had another liter I would be better off.. so this was something I thought was quite smart on my part.

I had a few plastic bags, I have a msr pot. the kind with the lid that locks down tight.. so I put about of liter of water in one of the bags.. tied a not in the top.. and carefully put it in the pot, with the lid on tight, i was feeling kinda smart;) I put the pot as level as I could in my pack and packed everything around it to hold it there.. my thinking was it would not be there long as I would be sure to use it first. It didn't work.. somehow the bag broke, but I was able to get about 2/3rds of a liter and every little bit helps right?

there isn't much I can say about the trip out except that my leg got worse and i was in a lot of pain. my body did not recover from the lack of water from the day before. I was not able to keep anything in me as far as food. so I was kinda week from that. at one point about every 300 feet I walked I was bent over dry heaving. with my leg and the over all sickness it took me about 11 hours to walk out.

it took me a long time to recover when I got home. my leg is fine and it was nothing serious. I just jammed my hip when I was trying to stop myself from falling. but if you have ever jammed your hip.. its feels like the bones are rubbing together when you walk on it. it was like that for days after, about a week before I could stop limping around and walk normal.

if I had it to do over and I knew that I knew that rain was coming... No way I go all the way down to the bottom of the canyon.. I would have waited at the top for the rain and i'm sure filtered rain water would have tasted alot better then the dirty river water in the canyon..I have a really good filter and it still tasted like dirt.. put that on an tummy that is already throughing up and it gets worse.

I have learned form it tho..

Billy · Post by **Billy** » Oct 13 2003 3:50 pm

Maybe next time you are up for an overnight adventure, you might think about taking a friend a long with you...........just a thought. Glad you made it out without anything more serious happening to you.

AZ_Hiker · Post by **AZ_Hiker** » Oct 13 2003 3:53 pm

oh sure be logical about it!!

Billy · Post by **Billy** » Oct 13 2003 3:58 pm

ADGibson · Post by **ADGibson** » Oct 13 2003 7:19 pm

Man. No one can predict what the weather will do. We have all seen storms coming our way and it somehow changes direction. Had that happen many times when I'm out on my brother's boat. All you can TRY to do is be in a good spot when it hits. Even that never works right when it's supposed to.

Maybe we should have a section for hikers to leave their trip plans when they are going out alone. They could leave there contact info and post when they get back. If they don't then someone could contact the local ranger service to send out help. This would of course not be a substitute for telling a close friend or family so they can report missing hikers, but it would be better than nothing.

Did you leave your trip plans with someone?

Im so lost! Why is it such a big deal Going off trail?

Im so lost! Why is it such a big deal Going off trail?

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