stay warm backpacking in winter

kiddiehawk · Post by **kiddiehawk** » Oct 26 2003 7:38 pm

I'm wanting to do a 2-3 day trip around Thanksgiving time and want to continue to be able to backpack throughout the winter, but I hate the cold and have had more than one miserable night backpacking in the cold. I'll take 90 degrees over 50 any night! My 20 degree bag with sleeping pad never seemed to keep me warm even in 50 degree weather. I now have a zero degree bag and a little warming pad that heats up when you push the button, but I'm still worried about keeping warm throughout the night.

Any ideas of where I could go that would be warmest? (not too much shade, lower lands, allowed to build a fire..., even if I have to drive out of state).

Any ideas for keeping warm besides the obvious of buying expensive lightweight synthetic clothing, hat, gloves, and good socks....?

Also, I read the "weather" article and the hiker suggested hike in 65-85 (I think) weather only (meant more for day hikes, I believe?).
I'm wondering if most people take a long break from backpacking certain times of the year (winter...) or how many people are doing lots of "winter" backpacking.

hikeaz · Post by **hikeaz** » Oct 30 2003 2:54 pm

Yep. 30's about right
You can try using "Globe" for your weather.... its evevation more closely mirrors the Sups than, say, Mesa or A.J.

Globe is at about 3600', average for the Sup's, I'd say.
However Reavis is at about 5500', so watch your elevation.

I'd say that if you'd like to adjust to the pending weather report, that 3.5 degrees per 1000' is about what you would lose/gain - if my memory serves..

Aravaipa is a nice T-giving hike, but there's not a lot of sunshine, as it's in a canyon.

Taylor Cabin might suit you.....

ADGibson · Post by **ADGibson** » Nov 10 2003 6:58 pm

In response to kiddiehawk's reply:

I guess I should ask what bag are you using. I also would ask how you usually are when you sleep. Do you get cold with AC running in the house?

I do tend to sleep with only shorts on. I usually sleep like I'm an oven, which is great for my wife. She tends to suck all the heat from the bag. She can be cold at 70F with a 25 degree bag. She just doesn't handle the cold very well.

montezumawell · Post by **montezumawell** » Nov 10 2003 8:08 pm

Just experiment a lot.
You will find something that works better.

J&S

te_wa · Post by **te_wa** » Nov 11 2003 4:58 pm

Just a reminder, not to insult all y'alls intelligence, but NEVER use a propane or other gas heater inside a tent. You die. Kiddiehawk, I was wondering who is the manufacturer of your bag(s) Some companies, (Slumberjack) are notorious for over-rating thier products. I have a "20 degree" Slumberjack that is totally worthless under 35 degrees. Just checkin'

Down is nice, it warms up instantly compared to synthetics, and Yes Its True sleeping in the buff is warmer. Want total luxury? Sleep nekkid with a silk bag liner. (In my best Homer impression... AAAHHHH!!)

and people.. please never leave a fire unattended, even when sleeping. It only takes one small ember.

Up to forty percent of your body's heat escapes from your head! It makes sense to wear a beanie to bed! You guys are S-M-art! love ya!

RedRoxx44 · Post by **RedRoxx44** » Nov 11 2003 7:06 pm

I can't add much except to get out of canyon bottoms and camp high to avoid cold air drainage at night; out of wind and cover your head . I was in southern utah about a month ago, slept out evey night for 10 days with no tent and it was great. It wasn't too cold though- although rain one night and tarp did fine. Single wall tents seem to trap condensation, even in a well ventilated tent you may wake up warm but with a wet bag. My down Marmot bag has a dryloft outer shell that I think is worth every penny.

kiddiehawk · Post by **kiddiehawk** » Nov 11 2003 7:46 pm

In response to DoFear and MikeinFHAZ, when I was cold in the past, I was using a basic 20 degree EMS (Eastern Mountain Sports-all ya Eastern folks know the store..) bag. I now bought a 0 degree Kilimanjaro regular woman's bag from REI. It has Polarguard 3D in it. Ooo, was I cozy in my new fluffy fat zero degree bag on my last trip to Havasupai Falls middle of Oct, actually sweating that time of year, but it's nice to have a comfy fluffy bag.

My last bag is pretty flat due to being some yrs old and not always packing it away outside of it's stuff sack. I also read that you should fluff up your sleeping bag before sleeping, by the way. It does something to lock air in between fibers or something like that.

As far as AC in the house, DoFear, you might not believe this, but having moved from MA with snowy winters and to AZ 4 yrs ago, I use my heater much more than my AC at home. I use fans in the summer and can count how many times I've used my AC on both hands!!! I won't say it's not hot, but for me, it's doable and much more comfy than being cold. I've never had an electric bill reach $50 in my home! (That's one "cool" (ha ha) thing about my cold "problem"). I wasn't kidding when I said I get cold!

Really good info everyone. Learning a lot!!

Daryl · Post by **Daryl** » Nov 12 2003 11:24 am

Good point about the propane in the tent. Sometimes it's tempting to fire up your stove in the tent. I've heard several GIs in Iraq did this in the first gulf war and suffered carbon monoxide poisoning.

However, Coleman does make a tent safe catalytic heater that works very well when car camping. It's a little too big and heavy for backpacking. One green can of coleman propane last about 6-8 hours. I've slept with the covers off when it dipped down to the low 30's. I think it's called the black cat and runs about $50.

te_wa · Post by **te_wa** » Nov 12 2003 2:24 pm

Yes! I have seen that Black Cat catalytic heater. There is now a "junior" model I have seen at Target. It may be a great item hiking in a group where one sucker can carry that whole enchilada. I think it comes to 16 lbs with gas canister and all. Imagine that, KiddieHawk!

montezumawell · Post by **montezumawell** » Nov 12 2003 5:59 pm

can't imagine the black cat weighing 16 pounds. We've owned one since about a month after their introduction. Since we have lived "off the grid now for 10 years, we are VERY sensitive to carbon monoxide. Detectors and all of that. Well, the Black Cat passes muster Big Time.

It is vitally important that anyone who uses "off the grid" stuff be fully aware of the inherent risks of such usage. Your safety is your responsibility. A good carbon monoxide detector is essential in the testing of various "new-fangled" devices purported to be "safe." Test 'em for yourself and then decide if they are worthy companions on your next camping trip whether it be via foot or vehicle. Take no one's word but your own. Your very life depends on your diligence.

j/s

te_wa · Post by **te_wa** » Nov 12 2003 9:24 pm

OOps!!

typographical error. I meant 6 pounds!! duh

kiddiehawk · Post by **kiddiehawk** » Nov 13 2003 7:42 pm

Well, I think we've narrowed it down to backpacking the Charlebois from Peralta TH at 2400 elevation or Charlebois from First Water TH on the weekend before Thanksgiving. Sure hope it doesn't rain. Does anyone know if those sound like pretty good "warmer" hikes?

hikeaz · Post by **hikeaz** » Nov 14 2003 8:27 am

They are both terrific routes. It is possible to do either of these as a "loop", which would allow you to see more varied areas.
Or you could drop a vehicle at, say, First Water, and then start from Peralta, doing it as a one way straight through trip.
Of course you'd pay double-extortion fees to the USFS.

Either way, remember to take the "Bible" of the Superstitions, "Hiker's Guide to the Superstition Wilderness" , by Carlson/Stewart.

HAVE FUN !

kiddiehawk · Post by **kiddiehawk** » Dec 01 2003 6:59 pm

We're back. We ended up doing Charlebois from first water TH. It was awsome! luved it! we went the weekend before Thanksgiving. it happened to be the coldest weekend of the year so far- what luck!!! It was windy and dropped below 40 degrees in PHX. Stayed warm, though. Not toasty, but warm. I'll go, again, throughout the winter, now, as waiting later in the winter does not necessarily mean it'll be colder. look how nice it's been since that weekend! the things i did differently than the nights i've frozen were :change into clean clothes for sleeping (I actually did the no no of changing into cotton and out of my polystuff, but clean and dry seemed better than poly and hiked in all day stuff), have company in the tent, use my new spiffy zero degree bag. We also found pretty decent protection from the wind. didn't have to use my heat-up pad-thing or put a bottle of warm water or broth in the tent. thx for all the advice! if i learn new things, i'll post them.

te_wa · Post by **te_wa** » Dec 12 2003 8:21 am

Kiddiehawk! Hope you had a good time, sounds like it... I was looking into cold weather tips and found these (what seem to be) useful nuggets!!

wear wrist bands to bed, heat apparently escapes from your wrists as well as your head. go figure.

pack a large dark colored trash bag, and put it around the bottom half of your sleeping bag, leaving it loose so moisture can escape. It can double as a ground cloth or rain coat as well.

go buy the "sweetie pie" bag doubler. And bring a friend! hehe

dont over-inflate your pad. Leave just enough air to be comfy, having less air for you body to heat. The foam will do the rest.

Something I want to do is build igloos. They can be very cozy Ive heard. People? Any suggestions?

hikeaz · Post by **hikeaz** » Dec 12 2003 9:30 am

Something that I use that works is a radiant barrier available (in the insulation section) @ Lowe's/Home Depot.
It is, basically, small bubblepack, with a thin foil surface layer. See example: http://www.radiantbarrier.com/whatis_reflective.asp
It weighs about nothing and when used in conjunction with your normal pad, really works.
From an earlier post we found that Heat travels from a warm area to a cool area by a combination of conduction, convection, evaporation and radiation.
Heat flows by conduction from a hotter material to a colder material when the two materials touch. Heat transfer by convection occurs when a liquid or gas is heated, becomes less dense, and rises( this can be mitigated by a vapor barrier, like the plastic bag mentioned in a post above). Radiant heat travels in a straight line away from the hot surface(you) and heats anything solid(your Therm-a-rest, the ground, etc.) as the wave of energy hits it.
If we mitigate this heat loss by use of this Radiant Barrier, you feel warmer, and your body will have less of a need to manufacture heat.

The "lite" series Therm-a-Rest's have the foam "die cut" with sections that have NO foam at all - these might be more lightweight to carry, but are less desirable when the cold weather hits.
Ultralite - R value 2.6 / Guidelite- R-Value: 3.8 / Camplite R-Value: 4.1
Move to the solid piece Therm-a-Rest's, and the R values are 5.8 to 7.3.

A lot of the time (especially in AZ.) one does not need the added R value(and thus the weight) of the solid foam pads- that is another + for using the Lite series T-a-R coupled with the radiant barrier.

pfredricks · Post by **pfredricks** » Dec 12 2003 12:06 pm

mountaineers get themselves used to the cold.

They furnace less, use the car heater less, take colder showers, etc.

It really helps, and cuts your energy bills.

jason olive · Post by **jason olive** » Dec 13 2003 10:33 pm

I usually can stay warm if I keep my metabolism up. It is really nice to have a bottle of whisky or tequila around also.

stay warm backpacking in winter

stay warm backpacking in winter

Re: stay warm backpacking in winter

Experiment

gas heaters

my other brother Daryll

black cat

uh-oh

ya