Do you carry a compass and Topo Map every trip?
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- kiddiehawk
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Oct 25 2003 10:14 pm
- City, State: Phoenix, AZ
Do you carry a compass and Topo Map every trip?
I'm just curious how many people carry a compas and topo map every backpacking trip. I know they can be lifesavers, but actually haven't started that practice, yet due to the mere hassle of buying topos and stuff...
Any ideas on where to get topos inexpensively and easily/quickly or do you always have to go to REI or order them off a website or from the parks dept...?
Any ideas on where to get topos inexpensively and easily/quickly or do you always have to go to REI or order them off a website or from the parks dept...?
- mttgilbert
- Posts: 773
- Joined: Oct 14 2002 3:40 pm
- City, State: Denver, CO
- montezumawell
- Posts: 462
- Joined: Feb 03 2002 6:32 pm
- City, State: Montezumawell, AZ
Yes to compass
Yes, we carry a compass on EVERY hike.
j/s
j/s
Last edited by montezumawell on Nov 10 2003 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Back in the day ('96) I used the "Topo Companion" (essentially a clear plastic ruler with different scales) to manually measure & create waypoints on laminated 7.5" quads. I'd write lat/lon in ddd.mm.ss on the topo for a route I was going to follow and then manually enter all those numbers (waypoints) into my trusty old Garmin GPS-45 and assemble them into a route inside the GPSR.Wiz wrote:How do you know this?bzachar wrote:...some of those guys are clueless when it comes to mapping software. (Ask me how I know this).
This was quite time consuming & prone to data entry errors. I once transposed two digits (must have been the minutes) and then in the field could not figure out why I was so far away from one of the waypoints when I had hit all the others dead on.
About two years ago I bought a Garmin GPS V which has a computer interface on it. I thought,"What I need is a program where I can manually click on positions on a 7.5 quad to create waypoints, assemble those WPs into a route and then download all of it to my GPS V... no manual data entry and thus no possibility of data entry errors and it would be fast.
I had heard about "mapping programs" but didn't know what they were capable of. I went into Wide World of Maps and told them what I wanted to be able to do.
The first salesman said,"I'm pretty sure you can do that".
me:Are you sure?
him:No.
He starts up NG TOPO on the store's computer and clicks around for about 5 minutes trying unsuccesfully to create a waypoint.
To motivate him I said,"If it can do what I want I'll buy it now."
He clicks around for another 5 minutes without success.
him: "Yea.... I'm pretty sure it can do that"
me: "If I buy it and it can *not* do what I want, can I return it?"
him:No.
me: So you're asking me to gamble $100 (the purchase price) on "I think so?"
...silence....
Another salesman comes over, I told him what I wanted to be able to do. In 20 seconds he was creating waypoints. In 30 seconds he created a route out of them. That's when I said "I'll take it."
- kiddiehawk
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Oct 25 2003 10:14 pm
- City, State: Phoenix, AZ
I'm thinking of doing an overnighter on the Charlebois from Peralta TH or Charlesbois from First Water TH. Charlebois from First Water TH has a map on this site. I know I'm just being lazy and will prob go get a topo of that area, since I'll prob go a million more times and have gotten a bit off the trail at one time in those parts before, but still am curious if people are going mapless in areas like Charlesbois.
Compass, yes, topo? Go with the software versions. I have yet to need or use one(as in being lost), but with the DeLorme Topo that I have, I can burn my own scale and size to suit each need. While I'm on the trail? NO! Takes a bit of prior planning. It is nice to be able to ZOOM into an area for details.
We did a bike ride to a wilderness area SSW of 4-Peaks a few years ago based on my topo. The signage was exactly where the map showed it to be. I was pleased and would recommend it to anyone.
We did a bike ride to a wilderness area SSW of 4-Peaks a few years ago based on my topo. The signage was exactly where the map showed it to be. I was pleased and would recommend it to anyone.
Don't let the name fool you...
- montezumawell
- Posts: 462
- Joined: Feb 03 2002 6:32 pm
- City, State: Montezumawell, AZ
Absolutely And Always (AAA)
Yeah, let us re-emphasize that carrying a map and compass is "Absolutely And Always (AAA) a good idea. Why not? Whether it is a USGS "Old Style" topo or one of today's fancy-schmancy computer-generated custom quads, who cares? Why worry? Sure, we know you are all traveling with a GPS. We are, too. Sure, we know you are all carrying spare batteries for your GPS, too. We are, too.
But....what happens if your GPS fails? What happens if your spare batteries aren't any good? What happens if you are LOST? Oh, oh....
There is simply NO substitute for an accurate map and a compass.
Period.
Weighed together, these two items account for perhaps 1% of your total pack weight. IF that. SO what's the beef? WHY NOT carry them?
Machismo? Who knows?
Yeah, I figure this post will elicit some possibly-heated opinions along the line of "I don't need no stinkin' maps."
Whatever.
j
PS--Just give me ONE GOOD REASON WHY you don't need a map and compass and let's let the HAZ Jury decide if your logic holds water.
But....what happens if your GPS fails? What happens if your spare batteries aren't any good? What happens if you are LOST? Oh, oh....
There is simply NO substitute for an accurate map and a compass.
Period.
Weighed together, these two items account for perhaps 1% of your total pack weight. IF that. SO what's the beef? WHY NOT carry them?
Machismo? Who knows?
Yeah, I figure this post will elicit some possibly-heated opinions along the line of "I don't need no stinkin' maps."
Whatever.
j
PS--Just give me ONE GOOD REASON WHY you don't need a map and compass and let's let the HAZ Jury decide if your logic holds water.
- john.roach
- Posts: 14
- Joined: May 06 2004 8:24 pm
- City, State: Sierra Vista, AZ
Re: Absolutely And Always (AAA)
I've found my magnetic personality throws off a compass so much I haven't bothered carrying one in years!montezumawell wrote:PS--Just give me ONE GOOD REASON WHY you don't need a map and compass and let's let the HAZ Jury decide if your logic holds water.
Seriously though, I whole heartedly agree with you. There is no good reason not to pack an aditional >2.0 ounces on extra insurance from getting lost.
- SedonaHiker
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sep 15 2004 5:42 pm
- City, State: Phoenix, AZ
This may have been mentioned in a previous post, but both map and compass seem unnecessary on well-known (familiar) trails or heavily travelled trails (for example, any of the main Grand Canyon trails, many of the trails in Sedona).
I might be assuming that adequate pre-hike planning has included a long hard look at the appropriate maps. Once you are three miles up a canyon, you are pretty much on the trail you're on, and you're coming back out the same way (depends on the hike of course).
I might be assuming that adequate pre-hike planning has included a long hard look at the appropriate maps. Once you are three miles up a canyon, you are pretty much on the trail you're on, and you're coming back out the same way (depends on the hike of course).
- montezumawell
- Posts: 462
- Joined: Feb 03 2002 6:32 pm
- City, State: Montezumawell, AZ
Thanks for your post!
Thanks for your post. Logic would suggest you are correct. Today, while traveling to Grand Falls, I was musing about this topic. And I recalled why I like to carry maps of even such ordinary hikes as the Bell Rock-Courthouse Butte Loop. Believe me, you have to be pretty messed up to get lost on this hike.
However, I have actually had use for my maps FOUR TIMES this winter.
No, not for finding my way. But for chatting with "tourist hikers."
For some weird reason, I get stopped a lot by people who say something like, "You look like you know the local trails..." Well, yeah, I do.
And the next thing you know we are pointing, drawing diagrams in the sands, mud, whatever. Believe, those maps have come in real handy in those four instances where we were able to spread them out and talk about them.
My most enjoyable use of the maps was with a quaint couple from some suburb of London, England, whose name I can't recall. (I don't get TOO nosey.) They were absolutely FILLED with pertinent questions about the area. Since I carry all of the USGS quads that cover 90% of the Sedona vicinity trails, I was able to pull out the topos and we had ourselves a fine little "intercultural hiking moment."
Yes, technically, most competent day hikers "don't need no stinking maps," but they do have other purposes you may wish to ponder.
And besides, I have had great fun using the Sedona quad to conclusively PROVE that Courthouse Butte is, indeed, 500 feet higher than Bell Rock's tiny tip!
Happy Trails!
j
However, I have actually had use for my maps FOUR TIMES this winter.
No, not for finding my way. But for chatting with "tourist hikers."
For some weird reason, I get stopped a lot by people who say something like, "You look like you know the local trails..." Well, yeah, I do.
And the next thing you know we are pointing, drawing diagrams in the sands, mud, whatever. Believe, those maps have come in real handy in those four instances where we were able to spread them out and talk about them.
My most enjoyable use of the maps was with a quaint couple from some suburb of London, England, whose name I can't recall. (I don't get TOO nosey.) They were absolutely FILLED with pertinent questions about the area. Since I carry all of the USGS quads that cover 90% of the Sedona vicinity trails, I was able to pull out the topos and we had ourselves a fine little "intercultural hiking moment."
Yes, technically, most competent day hikers "don't need no stinking maps," but they do have other purposes you may wish to ponder.
And besides, I have had great fun using the Sedona quad to conclusively PROVE that Courthouse Butte is, indeed, 500 feet higher than Bell Rock's tiny tip!
Happy Trails!
j
Re: Thanks for your post!
In response to montezumawell's reply:
I totally agree. Even when there is little chance of getting lost, a map is helpful in estimating how long it will take to reach key points, including some you might not have been looking for in the other direction. This applies to not only to yourself, but especially in places like GC to unprepared people in trouble you come across. Several times fellow hikers have made crucial changes in plan after a peek at my map.
I totally agree. Even when there is little chance of getting lost, a map is helpful in estimating how long it will take to reach key points, including some you might not have been looking for in the other direction. This applies to not only to yourself, but especially in places like GC to unprepared people in trouble you come across. Several times fellow hikers have made crucial changes in plan after a peek at my map.
- SedonaHiker
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sep 15 2004 5:42 pm
- City, State: Phoenix, AZ
- Nighthiker
- Posts: 1506
- Joined: Feb 03 2002 6:59 am
- City, State: Payson
- mttgilbert
- Posts: 773
- Joined: Oct 14 2002 3:40 pm
- City, State: Denver, CO
I almost always carry maps of the area I plan on hiking in. If nothing else they double as a handy firestarter if I find myself having to spend the night unexpectedly.
Most of the areas I hike in are fairly well known to me and like J&S I often find my maps of more use to other hikers than to me.
Most of the areas I hike in are fairly well known to me and like J&S I often find my maps of more use to other hikers than to me.
Cogito ergo ambulo cum sacculo
-Matt Gilbert
-Matt Gilbert
- sherileeaz
- Posts: 209
- Joined: May 07 2003 9:47 am
I carry a compass and my hiking buddy Darl AZ_Iroc brings along his GPS. My friend Trish Trishness has an awesome map of the Superstitions which I keep meaning to buy one for myself.
Over a year ago, we had a HAZ get-together and in the morning we had a great Map and Compass course given by Matt Gilbert and a few others. It was well worth learning all the different ways to find your way.
Sherileeaz
Over a year ago, we had a HAZ get-together and in the morning we had a great Map and Compass course given by Matt Gilbert and a few others. It was well worth learning all the different ways to find your way.
Sherileeaz

The value of life lies not in the length of days, but in the use we make of them.
I always carry my GPS and lot's of batteries. In some of the more rugged and secluded areas I carry a topo map too especially in areas where the GPS does not work 100% of the time (i.e. forest and Canyons). I know it's best to always carry a topo map besides a gps but I'll admit I don't.
GB
GB
SUN HIKER
- bigracket1
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Aug 22 2002 6:12 pm
- City, State: Mesa, AZ
Not that carrying a map is a bad idea, but two of the worst hiking experiences I've ever had occurred when I knew exactly where I was on the map. One was coming down Mazatzal Peak, which has no easy trail to the top, and the other was coming down from peak #4 of the Four Peaks. There's nothing worse than being able to pinpoint exactly where you are on the map and not being able to make progress, except maybe not having the map at all.
Rob.
Rob.
- fairweather8588
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Jul 22 2003 6:35 pm
- City, State: Scottsdale
- Contact:
I'll rarely carry a map and compass when I'm outside. However I usually stick to areas I'm very familiar and comfortable with. If I carry a map in popular places like the Grand Canyon, I use it more to help out other people on the trail ("How far to ________" etc.)
No man should go through life without once experiencing healthy, even bored solitude in the wilderness, finding himself depending solely on himself and thereby learning his true and hidden strength
Kerouac
Kerouac