hiking partner over July 4th weekend

[formertexan]

I'm new to the region (in central Phoenix) and have made a couple of brief forays around the edges of the western Superstitions. Looking for someone to lead/second a more extensive day hike. Considering 10-14 miles. Perhaps Hieroglyphic Canyon up to FlatIron or something equivalent. The trails and parking seem underutilized this time of year.

Cheers,
Bill

[Jeffshadows]

For a good example of age does not equate to speed directly, see "Allen Fraley"

[Dschur]

Here's a helpful tip (my wife's invention). Pitch a few liters of water and sports drink in the freezer the night before a hike and load the frozen plastic bottles into the pack on the following morning. By mid-day when the sun is cooking they are thawing enough to drink, but are still ice cold.

We have found when you freeze gatorade that when it starts to melt it keeps all the electro lights in the frozen section and then the water separates from the other. If you let it thaw all the way out is okay but if you drink it as it melts by the time the last of it melts it is so concentrated that it is gross.

[snakemarks]

Can you? ... and wish as I may, my 50 will never be my 30. That's just how it is.

I'll be 49 in a couple weeks. I've lost some speed, but not much strength and no endurance. If that's not true for you, too bad, but I wouldn't necessarily assume that you couldn't make that trip because of your age alone. Having less capability is quite different from lacking sufficient capability for the task at hand. The year before last I ended a week-long backpack with a 15 miler in 110+ degrees and a couple thousand feet of elevation gain. I was the youngster on that trip. The first two guys to finish that day were both over 65. I'm sure they had lost a step or two also, but they had everything they needed to get the job done.

I did NOT ASSUME that one couldn't make the trip because of age alone. I never made any statement to that effect. If you comprehended it that way, too bad. I explained my point very well, but if (some of) you completely missed the bus the first time, I don't know how I can make it any simpler.

If you have "lost some speed" but not "much" strength...why is that? Why have you lost anything at all? Shouldn't you just stay the same forever? Age is not a factor, right? So I guess it must be something else...

[Jeffshadows]

Oh boy, here we go. I fully understood your original point - you can't do now what you could do when you were 30. I've got it. My reply was simply to provide a counterexample. Nada mas...

[formertexan]

First, my condolences to the "youngsters". Look on the bright side - you'll eventually outgrow it. In keeping with Davis2001r6's comment about the mean age in Badwater, the advanced years of participants is typical for ultramarathons. I'm not sure if physical endurance is a late blooming attribute, a case of natural selection or if there are psychological factors in play (perhaps a better mental grasp on how far the body can be pushed). Most of these people weren't extraordinary athletes and they didn't find Ponce de Leon's fountain of youth, rather they just ignored what seem to be popular misconceptions about the limitations of their age. Frankly I never even considered age to be an issue for something like hiking (or at least for a few more decades) and I wasn't looking to kick off a thread on the relative merits of age. But I'm sure Big Load (and others) will concur that you will win every day by putting your money on a fit 50 year old over the average 20 or 30 year old.

Second, I apologize if anyone felt I was commenting on their integrity. I wasn't. I was introducing an alternative perspective to summer activities.

After a few more forays into the Superstitions, I still find myself surprised (and pleased) at the absence of humanity and unblemished solitude. It is wonderful to be able to hike all day and see or hear no one. No more riproaring ATV's or unlimbering arsenals. Even footprints have completely disappeared with the recent rains

So at the risk of losing a bit of solitude, I encourage folks to ACCLIMATE and try leisurely summer hiking. 110 degrees is not inevitably debilitating (particularly if you perch something broad brimmed and reflective on your head). And water really isn't an issue for a single day: a gallon or 2 can be comfortably carried. For the minimalists with a filter, I'll take an uneducated guess and say that if you are off the ridges and mesas, water is never more than an hour or two walk away. So even if you end up a bit tired, hot and thirsty, those things aren't fatal and they improve the quality of the beer or iced watermelon.

Cheers, Bill

[Jeffshadows]

Let's call this what it is - this thread is about bravado. I've been ignoring it for the last week or so because I thought it was in poor taste. It is selfish and ultimately pointless to try to assign one's own limitations to others. Someone will always be able to pass me on any trail carrying the same load; that person might be 19 or he might be 60. It makes me train harder and set the bar higher, not hate him for what he can do.

[rally_toad]

I'll take an uneducated guess and say that if you are off the ridges and mesas, water is never more than an hour or two walk away. So even if you end up a bit tired, hot and thirsty, those things aren't fatal and they improve the quality of the beer or iced watermelon.

NEVER EVER Count on finding any water in the superstitions this time of year ANYWHERE! Carry in all that you will need.

Actually heat and thirst can kill! Hiking in the sups in the summer can be done. I do it, and others on this site do it. But you have to be smart about hiking out there this time of year.
A 10-14 mile hike in the sups can be done by some this time of year, the thing is why chance it. One mistake and you could be in a lot of trouble. Dont try and overdo it out there in the summer. I like to keep the limit at around 5-7 miles in the sups in the summer, starting either very early or very late.

[RedRoxx44]

Or backpack the El Camino in the summer. See John Anninero's book "Adventuring in Arizona". I sure wouldn't want to do it. But with proper conditioning and genetics some people can hike in summer just fine. I am not one of them I think.
It's like the folks that first crossed the deserts--the pioneers of differing ethnic and genetic backgrounds. Some made it and some didn't. We live a "cushy" life now, heaven forbid we don't have our water and all our comforts.
I lived for a while in Tucson without air conditioning or a functioning swamp cooler and drove a Jeep with no ac around in 100+ heat. Didn't like it and don't seek it out, but made it alright.
The age deal--I'm 50 now but did some of my most kick butt hiking ( for me) at about 47-48 years of age. Don't know why, just felt good and did it. Now I don't like the uphills so much but the longer treks are still ok. And now caving--trying to keep up with the youngsters for that one is really trying. But fun---and that is what keeps most of us going to hike our own hike.

[SuperstitionGuy]

Just a short follow up on our original concerns about hiking the Superstitions during the hot sumer months. This weeks edition of the Apache Junction News has an article on page A6 about two recent SSAR rescues. One person died from heat exhaustion and the other two survived only because one of the party loaded up his pack with extra gallons of water for the purpose of testing the pack. Had he not done so they probably would have died as well.

Joe, can you capture this article and make it part of this thread. Thank you...

[Jeffshadows]

3 Pulled From Superstitions
1 Man dies at Scottsdale Osborn

By Christina Fuoco-Karasinski

GOLD CANYON- A hiker died Sunday, July 13, at Scottsdale Osborn Hospital after being pulled from the Jacob’s Cross Cut trail near Broadway Road with a body core temperature of 108 degrees, officials said. Mark Hodson, 44, of Mesa, was sent via Air Evac to the hospital and despite attempts to cool him down, he died, said Pinal County Deputy Benjamin Cook, search and rescue coordinator.

The rescue came on the heels of a 17-hour effort to save a 25-year-old man and a 20-year-old woman from West Virginia who were lost in the desert. “While we were finishing that search up, we were called in reference to a guy at Jacob’s Cross Cut off the end of Broadway Road,” Cook said. “(Hodson) was about a mile into the desert, going up toward the Superstitions. He was about a mile into the desert going up toward the Superstitions. We released our helicopter from the search we were on and sent it to that one.”

Paramedics, firemen and members of Superstition Search and Rescue arrived on scene and found Hodson suffering from severe heat exhaustion, Cook explained. “I’ve never seen anyone breathing fine and never come to consciousness,” said Robert Cooper, of Superstition Search and Rescue, which aided in the rescue. As for the couple, they were in “good shape” when found at 11:30 a.m. Sunday, July 13, on Peralta Trail, Cook said. “Luckily the male involved in that was breaking in
a new backpack so he filled it with water. That really helped him out. “Water is really important. You’re going to use a lot of it
this time of year. They were out of water by the time they came out of the mountain -- that’s less than a 24-hour period. There’s an old story about bringing a gallon of water per day per person. Ten gallons lasted him one day.”

Other than a few scratches, the couple, whose names were not released, did not require medical attention.

[Jeffshadows]

This came across a listserv I subscribe to. The first guy was alone and on his way into the supes, supposedly.

[te_wa]

NEVER EVER Count on finding any water in the superstitions this time of year ANYWHERE! Carry in all that you will need.

that advice is good insurance on paper, but in my experience there are water sources that just never go away. I even found a "new" spring in Fraser Canyon that had been shown on old USGS maps but not anything newer. (I think it went away for a while) Keep in mind, this "new" spring was beautiful...and discovered in one of the driest months, November, after a sorry summer rain season. Clean, full, and so far has not been fouled by those nasty cattle that JF ranch lets on the loose.
there are at least 6 springs in the W. Supes that I can bet my life on. YMMV.
This does not mean that I endorse hiking in the supes in the summer without water, in hopes of finding it. Remember, 1 gal. per person per day, in moderate weather. But dont overdo it either, hyponatremia is a great concern too.

[Jeffshadows]

But dont overdo it either, hyponatremia is a great concern too.

For sure...it killed a Marine in training a few years back with full medical support right nearby.

[te_wa]

killed a radio DJ in LA just a little while ago
they were having a contest to see who could drink the most water!

[fricknaley]

But dont overdo it either, hyponatremia is a great concern too.

definitely, i helped tend to a guy on the bright angel a few years ago who was doing poorly on a very hot day. people kept puping water in him and he kept doing worse...boy needed salt/gatorade (or whatever equivalent you choose). gotta keep that in mind, don't just replenish with water. you gotta keep a salt source with you.

[snakemarks]

Thanks, RedRoxx44, for being brave enough to jump into this man-thread with another woman's point of view. I was beginning to feel a bit overwhelmed!

I had a similar experience to yours. I suddenly felt the need to push myself harder from 46 – 48 and I was very pleasantly surprised by my abilities. I was almost beginning to believe that the scientific laws of nature which govern all the other mere mortals simply did not apply to me. But, almost as quickly as I noticed this great improvement in myself, I began to notice a gradual decline. Nearing 50, and after several months of personal excuse making for my less than Superwoman behavior, I finally had to admit that for the first time in my life, I wasn't going to be able to climb all the way back up to the top of my perch, at least not without a great deal more effort than I was accustomed to. This was most humbling to my recently inflated ego.

For a while, I did nothing at all, choosing instead to sulk at the unfairness of it. But, almost 51 now, I am back on the road again and happy just to be there, even though I find myself in the right lane of traffic a little more often than I was used to! I do sometimes look back a little wistfully on what I was so recently able to achieve and wonder how I managed to do it. Maybe our internal time clock sees the curve coming up ahead and propels us into a 'now or never' mentality to enjoy life at the top being all we can be one last time before we must begin the inevitable journey back to where we came from. And, this last big push also gives us the advantage of starting that journey in our best physical condition possible.

Whatever it was, I enjoyed every minute of it!

[te_wa]

suddenly, all women are of the same athletic ability. Oh, brother.

[Hoffmaster]

This is thread is crazy. I like it though.

I can't understand how it can go from asking for advice to attacking each other with accusations of sexism, irresponsibility, and bravado. This is the problem with sports (rock climbing, mtn biking, hiking) forums. It seems like when ever somebody new comes along, they need to justify themselves with a resume, or else the "established" forum participants feel the need to jump all over them. Just answer the dude's question for crying out loud. If he wants to hike in the Supes in the summer, then fine. If you're too uncomfortable with that, then don't respond. I am not comfortable with heat, but I didn't feel the need to baby this guy with "warnings". There are people out there who can do things that I can't do, and I'm fine with that. I don't function well in heat, but I have friends who regularly mtn bike at South Mtn after work in 110 degree heat. I'm not intimidated by that. If you read through this thread, it is clear that you're all intimidated by someone who can hike in the heat. Not all people are created equal! Get over yourselves.

formertexan, you rock!

[Jeffshadows]

Hold it there, chief. I routinely hike in 108F heat, uphill, full-bore. My point mirrors yours - don't presume your own limitations in others.

[te_wa]

it is clear that you're all intimidated

careful with words like "all"
right up there with Never, Impossible, Always, and "trust me, Im a Lawyer"

hey, I thought the idea was cool. I told the guy it could be done. I also said there's water in the Supes. If thats not helpful, then Im not coming back.