the "barren wastes"

[desert spirit]

Don't you just chuckle when people back East (or wherever) think that's all Arizona is?

[JimmyLyding]

It is downright criminal how this state has done such a poor job investing in its future. We as a state have consistently taken the low road. The cheap road. "Why spend the money now? We don't need it now." Later: "We have to spend more now because we didn't do it when we had the opportunity to do it cheaper and easier." See freeway and road construction as an example.

Our state hasn't invested enough in education, the environment, or our infrastructure. Hence, we have an economy that's based upon tourism, construction (2 conficting industries IMO), and low-wage service jobs. We don't have a lot of knowledge-economy jobs, but we have a lot of Circle Ks and fast food restaurants.

What we see now with respect to our state is what you get when the 2 most important goals of the powers-that-be are to cut taxes and make real estate developers' jobs as easy as possible.

At least Obama has put the kibosh on implementing the environmentally ruinous, last-minute rule changes that the W administration tried to ram through.

[big_load]

This thread reminds me of when I lived in Iowa. A friend coming home for a spring wedding was flying in over the rich, black, newly-planted fields and overheard a fellow passenger commenting: "Look at that! Nothing but death, death, death as far as you can see".

[Jeffshadows]

There was a rumor floating around that the solution to the state's economic crisis was to simply stop subsidizing development and start making them pay their fair share. We would actually have a large budget surplus, some believed. Boy was that ever hushed-up quickly...

[JoelHazelton]

Apparently the solution to the states economic crisis is going to be the millions and millions of dollars generated by those #@$%%##$@!# speed cameras.

[dysfunction]

Apparently the solution to the states economic crisis is going to be the millions and millions of dollars generated by those #@$%%##$@!# speed cameras.

and yet we can't afford to fix potholes... yep, those things aren't meant to be revenue generating at all

[rushthezeppelin]

Apparently the solution to the states economic crisis is going to be the millions and millions of dollars generated by those #@$%%##$@!# speed cameras.

and yet we can't afford to fix potholes... yep, those things aren't meant to be revenue generating at all

Or fix the cams......I swear some of those things are broken. One clocked me a while back doing 52 in a 35 and I'm usually driving right at the speed limit. No more than 5 miles over the limit usually even on the freeways.

[PaleoRob]

Apparently the solution to the states economic crisis is going to be the millions and millions of dollars generated by those #@$%%##$@!# speed cameras.

And slashing school funding to one teacher per county....

[JimmyLyding]

They're gutting university funding, and that's not a good thing for our long term future. However, every entity that receives money from any government is going to feel the pinch. The economy for the next year is going to be a puckering experience, so make sure to hike as often as possible. Everybody needs to keep their heads up, especially because the speed cameras need to get a clear shot.

I am interested in how this is going to affect wildlands recreation. The National Park Service, National Forest Service, and BLM have been operating with less-than-adequate funding for years now, and it's going to get even rougher. The AZ Game & Fish Dept. probably isn't in much better shape, but at least its funding is *somewhat* commeasurate with useage. Get ready to see trailheads with overflowing trashcans, and I hope that's the least of our worries.

[dysfunction]

I believe this will outlast the next year, probably two. Call me a pessimist. That being said, I've noticed that Arizonans are unwilling to fund education. This is even at a primary and secondary level, not just the University level. As it stands there are complaints that High School graduates are now simply not ready for college level english and math classes, so they have to begin with 100 level rather than 101 level stuff.

These days, I make sure to sign every logbook I see.

[azdesertfather]

Don't you just chuckle when people back East (or wherever) think that's all Arizona is?

Forget what people back East think...even people living right here in the Valley think that! I hear it all the time, drives me nuts. "Oh, this place is nothing but barren desert"...and they want to move back east, or to California or something. And when I ask them how often they've left the concrete jungle and spent time in the Arizona wilderness, I get blank stares...crickets chirp.

[azdesertfather]

we average 100 inches of snow in the winter.

One of my favorite stats to throw out is that Flagstaff gets more snow annually than Buffalo, NY. Nobody believes it.

Ha! That's a good line

[Vaporman]

And when I ask them how often they've left the concrete jungle and spent time in the Arizona wilderness, I get blank stares...crickets chirp.

Yea, I've run across many Arizona natives who've yet to goto Sedona or even the Grand Canyon and have never even heard of Havasupai...

[azdesertfather]

Apparently the solution to the states economic crisis is going to be the millions and millions of dollars generated by those #@$%%##$@!# speed cameras.

Well, they may not last very long...

Ariz. House panel OKs ban on speed cams
by Casey Newton - Jan. 22, 2009 12:35 PM
The Arizona Republic

An effort to ban photo speed enforcement on Arizona highways advanced Thursday when lawmakers passed a bill out of committee.

The House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee voted 5-2 to recommend approval of House Bill 2106, which would force the removal of the cameras now installed on Interstate 10, Loop 101 and other highways.

“This was done in the name of revenue,” said Rep. Andy Biggs, R-Gilbert, who voted for the ban. “It is a speed tax, and it is being done to fund social programs.”

Biggs said the bright camera flashes pose a danger to motorists. Other lawmakers voted against the bill, saying the real danger would come in removing the cameras from state highways.

The cameras “dramatically reduce the number of accidents and increase the safety of our freeways,” said Rep. Eric Meyer, D-Phoenix, citing data provided by the Department of Public Safety.

Meyer said that the cameras save the state money by reducing the number of trips to the emergency room generated by accidents.

The bill now moves to the full House for a vote. Given the House's current focus on resolving the state's budget crisis, it was unclear Thursday when that vote might take place.

[big_load]

Don't you just chuckle when people back East (or wherever) think that's all Arizona is?

Forget what people back East think...even people living right here in the Valley think that! I hear it all the time, drives me nuts. "Oh, this place is nothing but barren desert"...and they want to move back east, or to California or something. And when I ask them how often they've left the concrete jungle and spent time in the Arizona wilderness, I get blank stares...crickets chirp.

That's for sure. Some of the most mind-bending comments made about my wanderings came from life-long Valley folks who would never been more than 50 feet from pavement and climate control, and never more than five minutes from a restaurant meal.

[big_load]

Biggs said the bright camera flashes pose a danger to motorists.

That's for sure. Did you ever have somebody in front of you lock 'em up at highway speed because they just got snapped? It's scary.

[rally_toad]

Regarding the budget cuts, at ASU there's a big uproar because now they are talking about closing a campus or two due to the cuts, also if they made up for the cuts with an increase in tuition alone, it would push in state tuition rates to about $11,000.

[dysfunction]

Biggs said the bright camera flashes pose a danger to motorists.

That's for sure. Did you ever have somebody in front of you lock 'em up at highway speed because they just got snapped? It's scary.

I've had the guy next to me blow through an intersection and been blinded by the flash. It is VERY bright and hard to recover from in the dark

[azdesertfather]

call me crazy, but I actually like having the cameras. it used to anger me how people would fly by me on the freeway at speeds I know had to be 90+, weaving in and out of traffic, and getting away with it because a cop wasn't around. it hasn't made it totally stop, but i have certainly noticed an improvement. if cameras can help make those idiots remember to put their brains back in their heads before driving like a bat out of hell and risking the lives of my precious family, then go for it!

[PaleoRob]

I am interested in how this is going to affect wildlands recreation. The National Park Service, National Forest Service, and BLM have been operating with less-than-adequate funding for years now, and it's going to get even rougher. The AZ Game & Fish Dept. probably isn't in much better shape, but at least its funding is *somewhat* commeasurate with useage. Get ready to see trailheads with overflowing trashcans, and I hope that's the least of our worries.

"We" (meaning the condor project) lost about 27% of our budget last week, due to a cut in federal funding, so it is already starting...
What kind of stimulus package is that, huh?!

[JimmyLyding]

A 27% cut is better than a 100% cut. Funding for the outdoors is going to hurt for a few years at least. We all have to do our part.
I agree with dshillis about the cameras. I no longer see pumpkins blasting down the freeway at 80+, and that's a much bigger safety hazard than anything.