New Prove-You're-A-Citizen law

[JimmyLyding]

When Governor Brewer signs this into law, can anyone see some unintended consequences? For those who don't know, this law will allow law enforcement officials to require anyone they come into contact with to prove that they are legally allowed to be in this country whether as a citizen or guest. For the record a valid driver's license is NOT considered proof-of-citizenship. Does this mean that those of us who appear as if we might be foreign have to carry around our birth certificates?
I'm not that worried about myself because I'm a 6'4" white dude, but then I remember reading about 80-year-old nuns being strip-searched by airport security.
As for hiking, I always carry my wallet with me because I'd rather risk losing it on the trail than having it stolen out of my car. But I'm not about to carry my birth certificate around. Anyhoo, this law will probably be struck down by the courts.

[JimmyLyding]

Meanwhile, one of my economics professor just got back from a meeting in New York about investing in Arizona. The theme of the conference was "What in the world are you fools doing out there? Why should we sink millions of dollars into a place that's more concerned about illegal aliens than the economy?" These folks were Wall Street-types rather than namby-pamby liberals.

I meant to say ... those Wall Street-types have been so successful in their concern for the economy. Why listen to some backasswards hicks from the country that believe in the rule of law?

This backasswards hick would love more money being invested in this state.
What about Americans of Hispanic descent who are forced to prove that they are NOT illegal aliens? Why would Hispanic Americans want to move here? Visit here? Stay here? I don't know if anyone else realizes just how much worse our state's economy will become if this law is implemented.
Think about how clogged our state's court systems will become if every Hispanic American who's pulled over for speeding is asked to provide proof of citizenship, and they don't have it, so they have to go to court.

[BobP]

don't know if anyone else realizes just how much worse our state's economy will become if this law is implemented.

Don't worry Jimmy....Obama will fix it.

[Jeffshadows]

While over there, I had the opportunity to see the previous head of homeland security fly in to confer citizenship papers upon twelve foreign nationals in the US military deployed in Iraq in a makeshift ceremony. Not one of them was in a combat service support role or in the Navy, they were all front-line troops. Many of them were Marines, in fact. They were over there in harm's way fighting for the very people that would now want to see them rounded up and deported just for walking down the street in AZ while lots of my fellow citizens hid on the camp, got out of being deployed, or never even served at all.

I think about that ceremony every time I see one of these pathetic lowlifes on the news with his "Border Watch" shirt, beer cooler, and folding chair talking about how he's out protecting America from the scum of the Earth. Who's doing what, again?

[berkforbes]

Don't worry Jimmy....Obama will fix it.

He did afterall create the problems currently plauging our country, im sure he has it in him to now fix them all.. (sarcasm thru and thru)

[PaleoRob]

Here's what Edward Abbey had to say about the issue back in 1988

http://compassrosebooks.blogspot.com/20 ... ation.html
Edward Abbey [1927-1989], the late novelist, essayist, and environmental activist, was a confirmed political "liberal" (perhaps even an extremist)

LOL! Abbey despised liberalism as well as conservatism. He would I think be classified as a limited anarchist. He would laugh in the face of someone who called him a liberal, in my opinion.

I am concerned with the change in burden of proof as well.

[writelots]

Think about how clogged our state's court systems will become if every Hispanic American who's pulled over for speeding is asked to provide proof of citizenship, and they don't have it, so they have to go to court.

Just as right now the courts/jails are clogged with other cases, such as the folks ignoring photo radar tickets and those who were driving within an hour of having a blood-alcohol-level of .08 or above. Currently, DD cases are taking over six months to go to court - and many courts are simply ignoring the photo radar citations. Flooding the system with thousands of additional cases, many of which will be much more complicated than that they simply didn't have identification, and expanding on our tent city jail will accomplish nothing except costing more money.

We think health care for "undocumented workers" is expensive... What happens when we have to pay a public defender and prosecutor, and judge, and bailiff and recorder and clerks and and and... Yeah. That'll fix it real good. Our economy will thrive, Bubba! And as I recall, deporting individuals from the state is not one of the optional sentences for breaking this law. Fines and jail time - fines they can't pay, so instead we'll send them to jail and pay security guards, wardens etc. to watch them.

Maybe it should be the new basis for our economy: rather than depending on development, or destructive industry, we will depend on the pursuit, apprehension and incarceration of law breakers who just want to feed their pumpkin families.

You will not stop illegal immigration with any fence, wall, rule or law designed to force people to stay out. Humans as a species have proven time and time again that they will migrate against any boundary to thrive. You have to make them not want to come. If they can't work here, they won't come. Why is this end of the problem so difficult for lawmakers to comprehend!?!

[big_load]

How many movies did I watch as a kid where one simple line is used to identify the bad guys: "Your papers please".?

[Al_HikesAZ]

While over there, I had the opportunity to see the previous head of homeland security fly in to confer citizenship papers upon twelve foreign nationals in the US military deployed in Iraq in a makeshift ceremony. Not one of them was in a combat service support role or in the Navy, they were all front-line troops. Many of them were Marines, in fact. They were over there in harm's way fighting for the very people that would now want to see them rounded up and deported just for walking down the street in AZ while lots of my fellow citizens hid on the camp, got out of being deployed, or never even served at all.

I don't know if I've said thank you, but let me do it here & now. The last I heard from a Marine Recruiter is that the recruit needs to be in the US legally or able to be in the US legally before they can enlist. The USMC is careful not to have any illegal immigrants serving. They don't need to be a citizen but do need a Green Card. They then earn citizenship without needing the Naturalized Citizen test. These Marines might get harassed by Sheriff Joe, but they have been harassed by much tougher men than him. They would not be deported.

I think about that ceremony every time I see one of these pathetic lowlifes on the news with his "Border Watch" shirt, beer cooler, and folding chair talking about how he's out protecting America from the scum of the Earth. Who's doing what, again?

: rein : Ain't that the truth. Over.

[rally_toad]

Hey, politics is stupid, thats all im saying. I'd much rather go hiking then discuss this. Its so dumb, especially when its the nuts who dominate both sides of the debate.

Plus I'm not really affected by this law since I don't look mexican at all... Although I am pretty tan, so maybe i should carry my birth certificate just in case. I do think this is stupid, its already illegal to be in the country illegally.

Don't we have teacher jobs to save, and higher education to fund and state parks to re-open, etc? But the state for some reason has no problem throwing money at suing the feds over a middle of the road health bill, and apparently taking this new law to court as well.

Our state legislature proves that politics is stupid.
They won't return my calls either...

[JimmyLyding]

Back on task: do my fellow HAZ users plan on carrying their birth certificates with them? Anyone worried about having to furnish proof of citizenship?

[PaleoRob]

Don't we have teacher jobs to save, and higher education to fund and state parks to re-open, etc? But the state for some reason has no problem throwing money at suing the feds over a middle of the road health bill, and apparently taking this new law to court as well.

I think a lot of it is posturing before the primary elections, trying to appear tough on party core issues.

Jim - I'm not worried about proving myself at all. If I get tossed in the clink, I'm calling the ACLU to take it all the way to the supreme court.

[chumley]

Back on task: do my fellow HAZ users plan on carrying their birth certificates with them? Anyone worried about having to furnish proof of citizenship?

No. Come to think of it, I have no idea where my birth certificate is. (Luckily that shouldn't rule out my ability to run for president... [joking!]). Perhaps I should ask my mom?

Seriously, I have a passport ID card. While I usually only carry it with me while abroad, it wouldn't be difficult to add it to my moneyclip.

It looks a little like this (that's not me):

passcard.jpg (7.71 KiB) Viewed 822 times

Its sort of that National ID card thing that everybody is so scared about...

[Jim]

You know what the law looks like to me?

It looks like it's just more politician showboating to distract from the real issues, more BS from the party of...

[big_load]

So did AZ not end up complying with the federal Real ID requirements? I had to bring a bundle of stuff to my latest NJ update, including birth certificate, social security card, and a bank statement or property tax statement that matched my address.

[JimmyLyding]

The legislators who passed this latest bill were vehemently opposed to a national ID card....

[Jim]

The legislators who passed this latest bill were vehemently opposed to a national ID card....

No doubt because that was potential to have government waste and intrude on personal liberties.

[RickVincent]

There is a right way to migrate to America and a wrong way. Sneaking across the border is not the right way, and it only spoils things for those who wish to migrate the right way. Laws are toothless without enforcement, and without enforcement there is anarchy. Bill or no bill, current laws regarding immigration need to be properly enforced.

[big_load]

The legislators who passed this latest bill were vehemently opposed to a national ID card....

I'm not programmed to deal with irony on that scale.

[Jeffshadows]

While over there, I had the opportunity to see the previous head of homeland security fly in to confer citizenship papers upon twelve foreign nationals in the US military deployed in Iraq in a makeshift ceremony. Not one of them was in a combat service support role or in the Navy, they were all front-line troops. Many of them were Marines, in fact. They were over there in harm's way fighting for the very people that would now want to see them rounded up and deported just for walking down the street in AZ while lots of my fellow citizens hid on the camp, got out of being deployed, or never even served at all.

I don't know if I've said thank you, but let me do it here & now. The last I heard from a Marine Recruiter is that the recruit needs to be in the US legally or able to be in the US legally before they can enlist. The USMC is careful not to have any illegal immigrants serving. They don't need to be a citizen but do need a Green Card. They then earn citizenship without needing the Naturalized Citizen test. These Marines might get harassed by Sheriff Joe, but they have been harassed by much tougher men than him. They would not be deported.

I think about that ceremony every time I see one of these pathetic lowlifes on the news with his "Border Watch" shirt, beer cooler, and folding chair talking about how he's out protecting America from the scum of the Earth. Who's doing what, again?

: rein : Ain't that the truth. Over.

Thanks for saying thanks! Don't count my generation out; there are some of us who would do it all over again if the country needed us! Liz's son is one, too.

RE: The immigration issue - I'm sure that's right; they're not going to let someone with no papers join up. That really doesn't detract from the message I wanted to convey, though. Another fun stroke of irony comes from who one of those guys was. I noticed that he had a bronze star (From Fallujah part 1) and asked him where he was from. Turns out he was from Nigeria and had not yet even set foot in America for anything other than his training. I shook his hand. I hadn't thought about him for years until all of these crackpots started in about Obama being a Nigerian citizen. ;)

[Al_HikesAZ]

Thanks for saying thanks! Don't count my generation out; there are some of us who would do it all over again if the country needed us! Liz's son is one, too.

RE: The immigration issue - I'm sure that's right; they're not going to let someone with no papers join up. That really doesn't detract from the message I wanted to convey, though. Another fun stroke of irony comes from who one of those guys was. I noticed that he had a bronze star (From Fallujah part 1) and asked him where he was from. Turns out he was from Nigeria and had not yet even set foot in America for anything other than his training. I shook his hand. I hadn't thought about him for years until all of these crackpots started in about Obama being a Nigerian citizen. ;)

Thanks Jeff. I'm just sitting here sipping on my Shut the Pumpkin UP coffee. :whistle: and glad to have you on our side.
Joe hates it and gets very anxious when I get all agitated over political stuff. It's like he's watching a volcano.
Warning - DO NOT click through if vulgar language offends you. if you click through on this you are going to see some vulgar MILSPEC language. http://www.flickr.com/photos/lavadog/1624172516/ I'm drinking more of this and less Starbucks.