Most Remote Place in Arizona

[wrangler0]

What would you guy say is the most remote place in Arizona I could hike/backpack to?
Thanks
Zac

[JoelHazelton]

I would say just about any spot in the Blue will be pretty remote, lots of turkey out there too, and you can always hope to hear a lone howl at night

How long ago were you on Steeple Trail? I usually go out there a few times a summer, and at the end of last summer I ran into the Blue Crew cutting new trail on Steeple were it had burned and washed out, previous trips it was pretty bad though, followed game trails, and worked my way through 6ft tall ferns!

I would say that on a whole its a pretty rugged area, definately not for someone out of shape, or someone who isnt good finding routes through really overgrown/seldom used areas

It can go from buring hot to frigid cold very quickly too, with a good storm

We heard some serious howls the first night. Unfortunately I don't know the difference between a wolf howl and a coyote howl. Steeple Trail was last October, so that would be after you saw them cutting a new trail. I can definitely say we never really lost the trail; there were just a lot of downed trees to climb over and plants to wade through.

[azbackpackr]

I rarely fail to see a bear or two when hiking in that area. And on the west side of 191 there are some great areas, too--Fish Creek, Bear Wallow, Black River corridor, etc. You can hike for days or, given time and enough food, weeks.

Don't go there quite yet, though. Still some snow, so some entry roads will still be closed at this time. Even the road to Big Lake, closer to civilization, is still closed.

I was up the Big Lake road today (261, from Eagar). They are doing all that forest thinning up along there. I used to be in favor of that. Now I am not so sure. It seems that we taxpayers are paying the loggers $650 per acre to thin the forest in the so-called urban-wildland interface. Translate that it means they are taking our money to keep some millionaires' log mansions from burning down.

In the old days you built a cheap little cabin if you had a forest lot. Then if it burned down, you hadn't lost much, and you didn't ask the taxpayers and your insurance co. to reimburse you.

In the areas that are being logged over the forest is very, very thin indeed, and all the trees they leave behind are pretty much the same size. Not much biodiversity there, and they have to bulldoze miles of new dirt roads, and they 'doze right over springs, and have stopped up many little creeks. Next thing you know the cattle will be grazing in there and the ATVs will be all over the new dirt roads. No, it's not great for biodiversity, but hey, gotta protect those big pointy log houses. If you are familiar with this Big Lake road, the paved one that goes from Eagar up to Crescent Lake, you will hardly recognize it next time you go up there. At this time it is open to the overlook just before you get to Mexican Hay Lake.

Next thing you know they will be doing the same thing in Alpine, and who knows when, but they will likely get on down to Hannagan as well. They tell us they are making the forest look the way it used to before 100+ years of fire suppression created a thicket-like forest, where all the soil nutrients are taken up by trying to feed 600 trees per acre. They say this soil can more healthily support only about 6 big Ponderosa Pines per acre (I think those are the figures I heard.) They say there aren't enough nutrients to support these tree thickets, and then the other plants don't have enough light or soil nutrients. Sounds logical, doesn't it?

Jury's still out, though, as far as I'm concerned. If they continue to graze cattle they will not have the biodiversity they keep talking about. It will just be grass and Ponderosas.

[Jim]

You need to do some photo research and look at the what the forests looked like back then. Grass and ponderosa pine is what it was, in that elevation zone. The biodiversity was in the herbaceous layer, and it was dominated by grasses. We live in a dry system, and dry systems have lower diversity than wetter ones. You're right, the cattle will prevent the forest from recovering, but not thinning will only make things worse. I don't care for the mansions in the woods, but when you do visit areas that are thinned, burned, and not grazed its usually a pretty nice site. ATVs should be banned on public lands because people treat the land like one big dirt park. While I like meat and am not a huge supporter of feed lots. The cow calf operations run on public lands are a good use of land for meat production, I would like to see that greatly scaled back. I think most of the grazing allotments have too many animals on them. Maybe in yesteryear with a good grazing season it was fine, but they seem to over graze everything.

[azbackpackr]

I have seen the photos, and appreciate your thoughtful response. And have seen some woods that were thinned out awhile back. You are probably right, I just have to be patient and it will be okay in a couple of years or so. But it sure is not good to look at right now! And we likely will go somewhere else to hike. We hike all around Eagar, within 10 miles or so, to save gas, and we may be looking for other spots if they thin that whole area.

The little riparian areas I mentioned had a lot of diversity in plant life. I am not sure how they are going to fare if not shaded by the trees. There is no longer going to be much shade. It really is thinned out. And that hillside gets hot and dry in summer. I will just have to wait and see, I guess.

[Jim]

If anything I would expect that the riparian area will see an explosion of growth. Not as many trees pulling up water and more sunshine will probably create ideal conditions for herbaceous plants. It takes a long time for the thinned areas to regrow for a couple of reason: it is still pretty dry, and the seed bank may be absent. Still, the fewer people in an area the better.

[jkern15674]

Just got back from a trip near Young and I can guarantee only a handful of people have been in these canyons. Started on Mc Fadden trail up to Park tank, then drop into Park canyon with three 50 foot rappels, then into Salome creek through the "Grotto" with four 50 foot rappels and down to the confluence with Workman canyon upstream to Hells Hole trail and back to cars. This is a BRUTAL hike would not suggest it to anyone except to die hards who love pain.

[Grasshopper]

Just got back from a trip near Young and I can guarantee only a handful of people have been in these canyons. Started on Mc Fadden trail up to Park tank, then drop into Park canyon with three 50 foot rappels, then into Salome creek through the "Grotto" with four 50 foot rappels and down to the confluence with Workman canyon upstream to Hells Hole trail and back to cars. This is a BRUTAL hike would not suggest it to anyone except to die hards who love pain.

Congratulations man! This is quite an accomplishment. I was wondering if you guys ever did try this one. You might remember you commenting on my 4/5 Hell's Hole-Salome Wilderness triplog, that you guys were planning on doing this above one on ~4/12-13. I was sure curious if you really pulled it off or not..an amazing, rugged area that for sure sees very few humans. Was the water cold in Park and Salome creeks?

[jkern15674]

Ya I ended up with mild hypothermia after the "grotto" cause one of our partners crashed and landed on his head and we had to tend to him for about an hour in our wetsuits (and he thought it was a good idea NOT to bring a helmet??) But once we got moving again it wasn't bad but exposure suits are needed for sure cause some of the swims are looong. It truly is no-mans land although I was suprised to see all the raps with fairly new sling and rapides

[canyoneer]

Cabeza Prieta....don't hike there anymore, too much going on with drug running. Love the Blue for remoteness, as well as GCNP in the far west and far east areas of the Park. Also Saddle mountain wilderness down to the Canyon...wow!

[azbackpackr]

I would have voted for the Blue P.A. and surely there are parts of it that are super remote. Parts of it get a little busy, though: Last June I led a fun backpacking trip for SAHC/ABC up Lanphier Canyon to Franz Spring and back around to Campbell Flats and Bear Valley and down the Largo Canyon Trail. Plan to go back and bag Bear mtn this summer as I didn't do it on that trip. At Franz Spring, however, there is a log cabin that belongs to the biggest rancher in that area. I forget his name. Anyway, he maintains this old cabin way back in there for his cowboys and himself, and it is beautiful. When we got there, there were 12 horses and 8 riders camping there, so we camped a bit away from them. A couple of them came up the trail at dusk to talk to us just as one of my pals and I were hiking down to the spring to get water. They said they had two steaks left over, still hot from the grill, did we want to go down there and eat with them? So, we did. The rest of our group must have thought we had gotten lost! We stayed down there and ate steak and potatoes and vegetables and dessert and drank a lot of sodas (they were Mormons) and had a good old time! We didn't see anyone the rest of the trip, though.