Benches on Siphon Draw Trail

[brusso99]

Hello,

My first post. Really enjoying the hiking. Made it up to the flatiron with my wife recently and I was kind of miffed by the new bus stop style benches placed in the wilderness by scouts apparently. They totally kill the landscape since they are bright aluminum, I suspect they will be just magnets for graffiti. I wanted to get others take on them, and frankly see if others agree they should be removed. If so i would like to start getting people to contact the park and let them know they don't belong in there. whats next a starbucks on the flatiron?

Thanks
Brett

[Tough_Boots]

Yeah, I've heard some complaints about those and agree that benches just kind of ruin it. I assumed they are all "dedicated" to someone. If they are up on the Flatiron, then they are on national forest land and if below, depending on where, they might be in the state park. If they are on national forest land, I wonder how all that plays into the whole "not creating permanent structures" thing.

[big_load]

I wonder how all that plays into the whole "not creating permanent structures" thing

Maybe they're angling to have it considered enough of an "improvement" to justify fees. I doubt it, but I'm getting jaded in my old age.

[SuperstitionGuy]

Is this a second thread of the same subject?

Have someone GPS them, determine whose land they are on and then determine if complaining would help get them removed.

[brusso99]

All are dedicated to someone, they were put there by scouts, seems to be they dont understand the wilderness aspect. i believe i saw 3, two on the approach, sipon draw trail, one near the large rock entering the interior. they are out of place, all metal. I called the park and they said that people like to have places to sit. Call the park and asks for the park manager and voice your concern. Perhaps they will pave the trail next. The number is (480) 982-4485

[Tough_Boots]

@brusso99

any benches in national forest land should have nothing to do with the state park. If the Lost Dutchman or any other institution has gained any funds by placing them in the national forest, then I think any hiker that feels motivated should be able to pull them out. Save that crap for Camelback or Piestewa.

[hippiepunkpirate]

I called the park and they said that people like to have places to sit.

Do people not understand the concept of sitting on a tarzan swinging' rock?

[kingsnake]

People don't stop -- actually *stop* -- for stop signs, and still run intersections when the light is red before they hit the near side line ...

[sidhayes]

There seems to be a lot of anger here. Even a post about hikers "pulling them out". What is the big deal? Some people would like to plop down on a nice bench and look around. Meanwhile, the elitist hiker can just continue upward.

[Tough_Boots]

I think its probably more "annoyance" than "anger" that's going on here.

[brusso99]

I was hiking new years day, purchased a year pass and had a conversation with the ranger who was very rude about the benches and now the road they are hacking the trail into. He told me people wanted these benches, I said do you have a name, he said no, I asked do you have a petition he said no, I was told they have to make it nice for everyone. if we don't do something its only a matter of time before they have a paved road to the flat iron, the only thing lost duchman park seems to be interested in is collecting dollars at the gate. They are completely destroying the mounitian. Its a real shame they don't abide by leave no trace. They are hacking up the place. I don't hike south mountain because I can drive to the top.

How can we get this stopped!

[Grasshopper]

I think its probably more "annoyance" than "anger" that's going on here.

?.. ;) ..?

[BEEBEE]

The benches may have been someones Eagle project with no motive other then service to the community.

[kingsnake]

Maybe they're angling to have it considered enough of an "improvement" to justify fees. I doubt it, but I'm getting jaded in my old age.

Just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you. ;)

[brusso99]

The benches were first, now they have hacked up the trail at the entry of the canyon, they want a road to"rescue people" perhaps they should stop sending people in flip flops and a can of coke with a paper map toward the flat iron, I ran into four couples that thought they could get to the crash like it was a walk in the park. The park serves no purpose but to collect a parking fee to the trails. Everything they are doing is beyond the fence which is not even in the park!

If we don't make an effort now to stop them they will destroy the place so that its access able to anyone with 7 dollars and start taking people up in golf carts !

[kingsnake]

I hope I am not violating forum guidelines by saying the park's purpose, at least sans plowed roads and rest stops, would be to weed out the ignorant and unprepared. (Think of it as serving the modern world's sabre-tooth tiger role ...)

[brusso99]

I hope I am not violating forum guidelines by saying the park's purpose, at least sans plowed roads and rest stops, would be to weed out the ignorant and unprepared. (Think of it as serving the modern world's sabre-tooth tiger role ...)

, ,


The people we spoke with said the park desk gave them a map and sent them up sipon draw to the crash, when you ask these people if they have water they all have the same answer yea and they produce a 10oz bottle.

The park is only interested in collecting cash

[Tough_Boots]

The park can only do their little projects up to the wilderness boundary. Its not under their jurisdiction past that point. There's no motorized vehicles or equipment allowed once you reach the sign. I imagine that if someone really wanted to rip up the benches past that point, they could do so and the State Park wouldn't be able to do anything about it-- not that I'm condoning that or anything. [-X I think the benches are stupid but this is a high traffic trail and stupid things come with the territory. If you're set on having solitude and fewer signs of civilization-- hike another trail. The Flat Iron does give an awesome view-- but it's an awesome view of Apache Junction and Mesa with Four Peaks out in the distance somewhere. If that doesn't spoil the hike, then we can probably survive walking past a couple of benches (even though they ARE stupid).

[kingsnake]

The people we spoke with said the park desk gave them a map and sent them up sipon draw to the crash, when you ask these people if they have water they all have the same answer yea and they produce a 10oz bottle.

I was referring to the park, not the park service. :whistle:

[CannondaleKid]

Wow, really!?
Hang on a sec while I climb up on the :SB:

What is it with people nowadays?? Do we all have to like/dislike the same things?
Why is it always all about me, me, me?
I want this and nobody else can have it
If you don't place nice with my toys I'm going to take them home and pout.
etc...

And just what's so bad about benches that allow some folks who aren't able to hike very far to be able to sit down and enjoy a nice view of the Supes without houses, power lines, etc. spoiling the view? Is that such a bad thing that we're ready to rip them out? plz:
I don't care who put them there, I see nothing wrong with them. If you're taking a picture of the front of the Supes you aren't including that area anyway.

Like some folks said, if you want solitude from the masses, go hike somewhere else. But please, don't begrudge those who aren't the hard core hiker you may be and their right to sit and enjoy the view without climbing up to Flatiron. (Oh yeah, I agree, the view over AJ isn't exactly thrilling to me either.)

Yes, I have found I enjoy hiking less when around a bunch of other people on the trails. That's why I do a lot of hiking and 4-wheeling all through the summer when it's hot enough that nobody else is out there. This time of year when it's cooler I seek out hikes well off-the-beaten-path where we will not see another living soul all day.

Life's too short to stress over things like benches where YOU don't think they should be. Get over it!
Ok, I'm off the :SB: now, have at it!