The Borderlands

[RedRoxx44]

I guess I am starting this thread because of what seems to be a prevailing theme--- don't hike near the border unless in groups, armed groups or whatever. Ya'll know I hike down there quite a bit, and have done so solo, unarmed, multiple times. Even backpacked and car camped in "those" areas. It's still the US as far as I know. What I do see is as the border patrol puts pressure on the illegals the access trails shift. Certain parts of the desert have little evidence and others a lot. The Huachucas have cleaned up some, but the Chiricahuas have been hit hard. Southern Santa Ritas see a lot of traffic. As does the Arivaca corridor--Atascosa mtns, Hellsgate, Sycamore canyon and others. The Rez and the Air Force controlled lands. I've seen my share of illegals and some drug runners for many years now, and I guess I have been very lucky, I've had no trouble.
I can't understand the reluctance to go to these places, esp in a group. The precautions I take are simple. I remove or carry with me all items of value ( wallet, phone, etc) and I do leave a gallon jug of water out with a small food bag. It is probably more selfish than selfless--I don't want anyone to suffer but I don't want my car broken into either. I am alert to my surroundings. And I am not afraid, never be afraid of anyone.

That said, I like to have some of these places to myself, so it sort of aids me in seeing places not overrun with people; or people that don't want to be seen. ;)

[NatureKopelli]

The only time I had my car broken into and stolen was in a busy metropolitan area in Omaha, NE. And, it is not uncommon for vehicles to be broken into in order to steal valuables in busy parking lots and even on residential streets in small town Nebraska.

With that said, how common is it to hear about someone being killed by illegals in these border areas while hiking? I have not heard of anyone being killed yet by an illegal while hiking in either of these areas since I have lived here, but I am not much into watching the news. Are there lots of reports of car thefts there? How about assaults against hikers?

I dont know, but I think I might feel safer hiking there than driving in Phoenix rush hour traffic and possibly getting killed by a drunk or high driver. Would be nice to compare statistics....those killed by drunk drivers vs shot by an illegal alien in the mountains hiking? Raped and assaulted dating a local Phoenician or by an illegal alien hiking solo in the border lands?

[PaleoRob]

I know I am being called out on/for this. Maybe I am a wuss. Maybe I am mis-characterizing things down here. Maybe I am behaving the same way towards the borderlands as others behave towards the Rez (with some fear and half-truths clouding their vision). Here's what I do know:
http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/prog/blm_sp ... cerns.html
http://www.nps.gov/orpi/planyourvisit/yoursafety.htm
Both seem to suggest that things are ok. I worry though. I don't want my vehicle broken into or stolen. I love my truck and can ill-afford to replace it or its contents. Maybe it is more likely to be broken into in parking lot then along a dirt road. I have to use parking lots, I can't do much there. I can avoid dirt roads near the border.
Again, maybe I am just paranoid.

[Jim]

as others behave towards the Rez (with some fear and half-truths clouding their vision

Not to change the subject, but I feel that has potential to be directed at me, since I lived out there for over a year and had problems, but didn't actually announce all of them. Despite what some "be positive and jolly all the time" people may think. I had 3 separate incidence where people would come up along side of me as I walked or rode my bike on a dirt road near Kayenta and they would want to know why I was out there and tell me I didn't want to be. I had someone from my work, who was so hostile about people hiking with-in 1000' of their home on another dirt road, log on to this site and post what was in effect a harassing comment telling me to tell my (white) friends not to hike near their house. I had drunk neighbors begging for money, regular drunks do that on a regular basis when I went to get groceries, 3 probable break-in attempts on my house, and lived in a Federal Ghetto run by Housing and Urban Development where random dogs would chase me and a few tried to bite me. There is a lot more, but that was just what came to mind.

[PaleoRob]

Not to change the subject, but I feel that has potential to be directed at me

Not at all Jim. I mainly had in my mind some of my students down here and one of my college roommates who didn't want to go to Page for a day because, "They can kill you out there if you're white and no one cares."

[Jim]

Ah, OK. Actually, white people would get the FBI's attention, and they would care. Navajo on Navajo murders don't always get full attention. But Page?! Hardly "out there", I considered it off reservation civilization. The Rez is largely safe, it's just a few bad apples, and the isolated areas that are problematic.

[PaleoRob]

The Rez is largely safe, it's just a few bad apples, and the isolated areas that are problematic.

Yup, exactly. That's why I was drawing the parallel. You and I (and people who live around the Rez) know that, but visitors and newcomers don't. I think the same might be said about the borderlands.

[cactuscat]

@RedRoxx44
I would love to hike with you.
I'm curious - how often is the food and water that you leave out actually used by the time you get back?

[cactuscat]

@Jim_H
Yep. A guy at work's brother was just shot and killed on the rez a couple days ago ... definitely didn't hear about it on the news.

[Outlander]

I always tell people to find their own Truth instead of relying on the mainstream media or government sources. It is what you see on the street, what you see at the workplace, what you experience on a daily basis that is your own personal Truth, and very often the Truth is much different from the official narrative.

Regarding the drug Cartels: They are responsible for over 40,000 murders the last fifteen years, they have defeated the Mexican government, and killed thousands of journalists, judges, mayors, cops, women, children....can we agree that these are not nice guys????

These are the same guys who are moving drugs across much of the southern half of our state, going all the way up to I-8 and beyond. Most mule trains have a security detail, a guy with a machine gun, leading the way. How do I know this? Because I have seen it with my own lying eyes. Even better, I set trail cams and to see what goes on when I am not there.

Put me in the "bring lots of iron and bullets camp." It will not make me any friends with the hipsters in the coffee shop, or be accepted, or liked..........but it will give me some respect when I am hiking the Border with the criminals. If you are unarmed, you are at the mercy of bad men, and these are bad men to the extreme.

Now, yes, it is true the Cartels have a "no kill" rule in effect, for no other reason than it is bad for business, but they can sure make an "accident" happen by simply throwing a hiker off a cliff, or something to that effect. Anything can happen out there and it does. Don't let them mess with you. Don't let them take your stuff, or steal your truck, rape your girlfriend, push you around, or take your water. Drug runners are looking at prison time by simply being seen by you, and that becomes a problem....it does not matter who you voted for, your political correctness, or if you can speak some Spanish...none of that stuff matters out in the bush.. Fight man! Give them nothing. Fight!

[hikeaz]

Never fear.... Napolitano (along with the figure-head of the B.P., protected by their armed entourage) will be down in the border-area today pronouncing it 'secure'.
To be believable maybe just the two of them could backpack, say the Sycamore Canyon area down there, or maybe somewhere in the Huachuca's for a couple of nights before their press conference? ;)

McCain, increasingly moderate on this issue of late, is at least willing to meet with the area ranchers. (Gee - ya think that the folks who actually LIVE there might have some insight?) If I were him I would not be looking for a standing ovation from them, though.

I feel it an embarrasment (I just wish that THEY did) that Organ Pipe N.M. and other federal land stewards, despite 4 or more agencies assigned the task (and billions of our ca$h) of protecting our borders, have effecively conceded the border areas and instead have warned we CITIZENS to stay away instead of the illegal border crashers.

[RedRoxx44]

@Rob del Desierto

You have stated your position and are standing by it. There is nothing wrong with that. I am stating my position. I am interested of the views of others who have had experiences down there or have basis of opinions. The media I feel is not reliable to base an opinion on, but that is my opinion. I sort of put the Border Patrol and ICE in that column. Everyones' MMV.

[RedRoxx44]

@cactuscat
I have had the food taken once. Lots of footprints around the vehicle. A couple of smudge marks on the glass from someone looking in. The most discombobulated I have been out there is when sleeping in the vehicle I had the border patrol shine a light in the window and ask to see a permit at about 2 am in the morning.

Oh, and when I had a New Mexico rancher point a shotgun at me accusing me of trespassing on his property, which I had not yet. I was on the road and no signage. A border patrol guy came up and then all was good. Despite the fact your blood runs a little cold looking down two barrels a little later I couldn't blame the guy.

[hikeaz]

@Rob del Desierto

You have stated your position and are standing by it. There is nothing wrong with that. I am stating my position. I am interested of the views of others who have had experiences down there or have basis of opinions. The media I feel is not reliable to base an opinion on, but that is my opinion. I sort of put the Border Patrol and ICE in that column. Everyones' MMV.

1) My hiking buddy had his whole backpacking kitchen setup (pot, stove, etc.) as well as his brand-new hat and food bag lifted when we were backpacking the Canelo area. We had put our fire-ring and eating area in a wash about 300 feet from where we would sleep, as it was windy and too dangerous to have a fire in the grass area(s). I took my kitchen stuff back to my sleeping area and it was undisturbed but Tim's stuff was stolen from the kitchen area overnight.
I had smoothed the trail near where I slept before I turned in, and although I'm not a 'tracker' or such - it was evident that 10+ folks had travelled that portion of trail while I slept - never heard a thing.

2) Had an I.I. toting a large ganja bale ask for food while hiking the Sycamore canyon area recently.

Trash, trash and MORE trash is an unwelcome companion while hiking the Canelo, Coronado NM, Huachuca, etc. trails.

[Cheerycow]

So it has been two years since this discussion...what do folks feel about hiking in the southern area of the state nowadays? I spend my time in the Chiricahuas and this past weekend I saw 3 different BP pairs on the trails. One stated (when visiting my campsite) that they were tracking a group and lost them. He told me to expect them to come by.

Do you feel comfortable being out there? Feel comfortable traveling alone out there? Do you think things are better than a few years ago? Worse?

[RedRoxx44]

I still hike solo near the border and don't think too much about it. Depending on where I am I see the trash and trails, or sometimes I don't. Abandoned or not in favor trails a bottle or two or old blanket. I haven't been out on the El Camino in a while but I am down near Nogales off and on, hike in the Atascosas or the canyons there or off Ruby road or near Patagonia south. I haven't been to the Chiricahuas in a while but the crest trail seemed to be a main route for the illegals. Two years running I encountered them while hiking over a memorial day weekend.
I don't usually carry a gun or weapon and do lock up my car but don't have valuables in it if I will be away for a while.