Clash of the titans

[youngboy]

It is now time for the battle i have feared for years. Although we have been hiking w/ out adults for a few years now, i argue that me and my 14 year old friend are old enough and experienced enough to go backpacking alone, but our parents dont believe us. How young is too young to be going alone in the wilderness?

[plummer150]

What kind of 14yr old friend are we talkin bout' here? Male or female? Either way, 14 could be too young for an overniter. However, I'm one too push things to the limit myself and if it were me, I'd do it either way. So you may not want to listen to me and take my advice at all. I could be a bad influence. :twisted:

[montezumawell]

Hey, I like your Topic title--Didn't has a CLUE what it was all about by the title but it's a GREAT title.
It's also GREAT that you are posting here and we sure hope you keep it up. We enjoy your posts!

Your question is a good one. There are lots of variables to the answer. It's not a clear cut, black and white kinda deal. Probably the single most important question is: What's you plan?

Anytime you are planning a trip, you really gotta have a plan, even if it's a day hike.
The plan's details become a lot more important with a overnight backpack trip. We've read that a lot of people who hike the Pacific Crest Trail actually spend MORE time planning than they do eventually hiking. That seems pretty hard to believe but we're read it often enough to think it is true.

Personally, I think 14 is easily old enough to go pretty much where ever you want in the wilderness, provided you have prior experience, proper equipment, some pretty good training for emergencies, and a PLAN. If you had a really solid, detailed plan laid out for your trip(s) it would be pretty hard for any reasonable adult to deny your dream and your energy! The key is in the planning!

We'd suggest avoiding a "moon shot" plan first. Start with a small one or two nighter in reasonably well-known terrain. Work your way up to the long distance, long-term stuff. You will gain more confidence in yourself and your equipment (and your planning ability) and your parents will gain more confidence in your skills, knowledge and self-reliance. They will also gain a great deal of pride in your spirit, too!

We really, really hope that you keep posting to this particular topic and let us and the others here know how your quest is coming along and how your plan(s) are developing. If there's anything we can do to help you plan, please post up here and we and the others will do all we can to help!

Good Luck and Hike On!

J&S

[Nighthiker]

Salesmanship. You have sold your self that you are ready and your dialog at this site indicates that you are capable of doing a backpack trip, but you and your friend know your capabilities. You now would have to sell your plan to your parents that you are ready. I hope your parents are outdoor types that can appreciate your plans, but also look at the middle ground that you may have to backpack withsome other folks. I backpacked solo just after my 11th birthday, I went camping with my parents but after setting up the campsite, they allowed me to backpack to my campsite several miles away (after dropping me off at the trailhead) where I spent the night. I was fortunate that my parents enjoyed camping and at the time it was something that we had been doing for several years so they felt comfortable at allowing me to backpack and backpack solo.

[Dragon188]

I would have to agree with everyone else on here so far. As the child of over protective parents myself, the only advise I could give is to maybe go on an over night trip with your parents to show them that you're able to handle yourself. If your parents don't enjoy this kind of activity you may be out of luck. It has also been my experience that the more details about the trip you can give your parents, the better.

[arizonaheat]

Youngboy, three friends and myself did our first solo outing when I was 13 or 14 years old,
in the Colorado Rockies, where I lived my life until coming to Arizona. It was July and quite adventurous as we got about 6 inches of snow the second night out. The first day out we were fishing a high country lake and as my friend Mike was casting he managed to catch some idiot by the name of me who was standing behind him, the hook went right through my cheek . We dealt with it just fine.

If you have the experience, which it certainly sounds like you do, I think you will have one of the most memorable times of your life. I reflect back on our trip often, it is something I will never forget.

I thank you for bringing those memories back to me today, as I now have a big smile on my face from those fun, fun memories.

[Randy]

Youngboy: As Bill Clinton used to say, we feel your pain. I think several observations are in order here. People your age usually think they are immortal, or at least bulletproof. People your parents age, or much, much older (like Montezuma Well and I) are terrified at the thought of their little darling on a cold slab in the morgue, with a toe tag; or, even worse, in little clumps along the trail, tapered on the end, with fur sticking out. When arguing with parents, remember the golden rule: "He who has the gold, makes the rule." My Dad used to say that if I wanted to make the rules, I could pay the way. It was hard to argue with that when he was paying the bills.

I was a Scoutmaster and Hikemaster for 7 years. I was responsible for getting young people from 11 to 17 home from the wilderness without the use of a gurney or a body bag. At times this was a challenge. I had one case of hypothermia and frostbite (we found him at 1030pm, west of Mormon Lake in February, you can imagine the rest, and he did everything right AFTER he realized he was lost and off the ski route) one fractured arm and one fractured leg. One kid narrowly missed being stuck by a diamondback after taunting it with a sharp stick for five minutes, he would have deserved it, but not on my watch. There were a few severe traumas right in the buttocks, as Forrest Gump said.

I had two rules: Rule One was that I never, ever, wanted to ring a doorbell and tell some boy's mom to come identify the remains. Trust me, God spare you from ever having to see the pain on someone's face in such a circumstance. When someone dies on you, you never forget it. Been there, done that....Rule Two was that I would tolerate almost anything, but when I said Stop, it was because you were flirting with something that could violate Rule One. Parent's don't often say it (frankly, few of us say it enough to anyone we love) enough, but they love you and hope that you live long enough to have to bury them someday, not the other way around.

With all that said, what can you do? Human stupidity is boundless and not restricted to the young. I've known a number of young people your age who were prepared and mature enough to handle such a circumstance; I also known adults that should never go a step beyond the trailhead without a guide.

In an hour or less, I could tell if your skill set is adequate to risk an overnighter in a primitive wilderness area. Is your gear ok? What are the ten essentials? Can you read a topo and use a compass? What about wilderness medicine skills? What to do if you are lost or disoriented. Can you tie a bowline one handed? Your parents may or may not have the skill set themselves to determine if you are adequately equipped-either in your pack or between your ears- to be turned loose alone in the backcountry. If they are not experienced in wilderness hiking, or even if they are, they may be more inclined to agree to a trip with some older, more experienced participants. By the way, even if you are really skilled and prepared, if you are the one who gets hurt, are your partners capable of dealing with the situation? A team is only as capable as its weakest link.

Best wishes on reaching a mutual agreement. Let your folks read this whole thread and discuss how you each react to what is said here. I'm near your area, feel free to PM me, as I'd be happy to speak with you-and them-further on this. - Randy

[montezumawell]

Well said, Randy!

j

[mtoomeyaz]

Well I would have to go along with all that has been said here.
1) As Montezumawell notes, you need a good plan. This will help you avoid trouble to begin with and help you deal with it in the case that it appears anyway despite your best efforts. Understand what you are doing and be able to explain how you will deal with certain scenarios if they occur. Do it calmly and patiently. Don't rely on the old standby of "Oh Mom, that's not gonna happen!!!" If you can discuss your plan for various contingencies calmly, with maturity, and from a basis of knowledge, it will help you with.....
2) As Nighthiker notes, Salesmanship. All the above will go a long way towards showing your parents that you have thought this out. It illustrates that you are adult enough to identify a goal, research it, and move towards obtaining it. In the mean time, take care of your other business. Keep up in school, do your chores, take care of your belongings, just show responsibility in general. This will help you with.....
3) As Randy notes, there is a different mindset between kids and adults. I might have added in #2 above " don't do anything stupid" Keep in mind that what may appear reasonable to an adolescent appears "stupid" to an adult, and vice versa. I catch myself saying and doing things now, that would have made me laugh as a teenager. My point is that your parents will have concerns. They may seem unreasonable to you, but they are very real concerns to your folks. Deal with these concerns respectfully, as you would like your concerns dealt with. Answer their questions. Reinforce your plan. Emphasize your experience and acknowledge that you don't know everything (none of us do), that you will use your best judgement if faced with an unexpected circumstance. Keep in mind your history with your parents during all this. If you haven't shown good judgement in the past, why should they believe you just woke up with it this morning. You might have to demonstrate a "new attitude" over the next few months to earn their approval. On the other hand, if you have shown good decision-making in the past, bring this into your sales presentation when making you case. Be prepared however, for a difference of opinion on good judgement. This would be one of those points to keep cool. This is a big "different mindset" area. Just stay cool and keep going back to your plan. You've prepared. You've thought. You've considered. If they do stump you, don't try to snow-job them. Simply admit you hadn't thought of that and tell them you will go back to the planning table to look for a solution to address their concern.
OK, I'm getting long winded here. I'm sure you get my point by now. I hope this will help. Best of luck.

[desertgirl]

It is now time for the battle i have feared for years. Although we have been hiking w/ out adults for a few years now, i argue that me and my 14 year old friend are old enough and experienced enough to go backpacking alone, but our parents dont believe us. How young is too young to be going alone in the wilderness?

Commend you on seeking advice -- Definitely a sign of maturity. All views mentioned before on this thread are great & valid and should be seriously considered.

View this as an education process for yourself & your parents. Come to mutual agreement on your "backpacking trip" and you will have a trip that is enjoyable for you & your parents ( of course they stay at home -- hopefully not worrying the entire time). Make a PLAN & STICK to it. It will be beneficial to you & your parents.

As both of you gain further confidence & experience..grater "adeventures" will come. Good luck & hope you tell us all how your trip goes!

[Wiz]

Youngboy,
You sound like a smart guy. Ask yourself honestly, how good am I? If you go out unaccompanied, everything will probably be fine and you'll have a great time. But if things go bad, really bad, can you handle it? Can your camping buddy? Can you trust him not to be a jerk and get you both in trouble (e.g. mess with a snake, etc.)?
Where did you learn your outdoor skills? It sounds like you didn't learn them from your parents, or else they wouldn't be so reluctant to let you go. All the stuff Randy said above is very very true.

Assuming you've thought of all this and decided that you're ready to go, work with your folks on it. Have an itinerary, show them exactly where you want to go, what you'll be doing, when you'll be out. Get out the topos, make a copy of the map showing the route in and out for them. Most important, if they agree, stick to the schedule so they'll see that you're a man of your word. Ease their minds, make them feel comfortable and confident about your abilities. Once you get them past the first time, they'll be a lot more agreeable the next time.

That last also applies to other experiences you will undoubtedly be having soon.

[MaryPhyl]

I think you are old enough when your folks say you are old enough. Every family has to figure these things out for themselves. You may feel grown but fourteen leaves a lot of life ahead of you.

[mountain goat]

Summed up best by those above! It all depends on you. best thing is to do something easy 1-2 nighter first in very familiar ground...I think one of my friends and I started overnighters when I was in the 10-11 year age group.

[mttgilbert]

It might behoove you're cause to show your parents the reactions from some of the more experienced hikers and backpackers who posted above (and possibly below). I would say that at 14 (or any age for that matter) you are safer in the wilderness than you are in the city, even right in front of a police station. This is especially true if you have the forsight to establish a good plan and the experience to carry it out. Above all, try to be reasonable. If you can render a logical argument, as would an adult, your parents may be more willing to treat you as such. In any case, good luck. Some of my best memories come from backpacking trips with my friends when I was younger. I hope your parents recognize the potential for a great experience you can treasure for the rest of your life. (and remember if all else fails, tell them it would build character, parents love that kind of stuff. )

[jeremy77777]

I was doing it at age 11. Go for it! Just make sure you are prepared for any situation that comes up

[youngboy]

Well it seems we have failed, technically. They agreed, but we will have to take a naivgation class before we go. Anyone know any navigation classes in the Phoenix area? Thx

[arizonaheat]

Youngboy, not off the top of my head. I do know of some excellent websites though.

I know there has to be some sort of orienteering club or something around, let me check and see what I can find.

What kind of navigation they want you to take map and compass, or map and gps. Do you have a GPS available?

Does it have to be a class or would a competent person from this site qualify?

[youngboy]

Compass and map, because the gps we have rarely works, and a class would be easiest.

[plummer150]

Ah, go for the hike. You seem ready enough. I know when I was 14 I was all over the place. Wow, now that I think back that long ago, eighth grade was pretty crazy for me. Thats whenever I started doing everything on my own pretty much, or at least wanted to. Party it up!! :twisted:

[desertgirl]

Hey,

Did you get your class & get to go on your own hike ??