Hiking vehicles

[rally_toad]

What kind of vehicles do you guys all drive when your going hiking? Im thinking about investing in a 4wd high clearance Jeep or something of the sort so I could get to some places where I definitely couldnt get to with what Im driving now (73 mustang):) I saw a Jeep Grand Cherokee today for $2600 and I was thinking about checking it out. What "hiking vehicle" is easiest to drive and which gets the best gas mileage (even though I know most wouldnt be too fuel efficient.)

[skatchkins]

I take this for dirt

or rainbows

And I take this for dirt & clearance but not rainbows

[Chuy]

Two of the best 4x4's for the money ever made are the ISUZU TROOPER and Mitsubishi Montero SR aka the Full Size model. Both are light years beyond anything available domestically in the price range. For some reason they just never really caught on in popularity here.

The Troopers rear axle is rated at over 1 Ton equivalent to a Dana 60, most models came with a LSD. The engine and vehicle in general is very robust no rattles after 200,000 miles. No need to lift and runs in full time 4x4 and is noted for its extremely robust braking system that requires almost zero maintenance.

The Montero SR is really the gem in 4x4's some models came with an air actuated rear locking differential or LSD. The drive train is bomb proof and very overbuilt. It had the ability to run in full time 4x4 and 2WD on the road.

Both models have a center locking differential able to run in 4hi and 4low off road. They can both be had easily for under $4000

The mac daddy of 4x4's in the US is hands down the 80 series Toyota Land Cruiser 91-97, solid front axle 4:10 stock gearing, full coil long arm suspension, center locking differential, and front and rear electric lockers all stock. Legendary Toyota quality built on a solid frame world platform. They can be had from $2000 - $20,000 depending on model and condition.

The downside to all of them is that for reliability and durability you pay for it in mpg. All of those over built axles and drive train components are very heavy. Toyota components are massive compared to domestic components not to mention they have a 3rd center differential.

If I had $4000 to spend I would got for a Montero SR. You could have a really nice dependable reliable 7 seater family wagon able to handle any unforeseen situation but in the end life's too short not to DD a Land Cruiser. Luck favors the prepared. http://vimeo.com/30907043

[Alston_Neal]

most models came with LSD.

That would explain the niche popularity... ;)
Seriously your post was very good and opened my eyes on both models, thanks for that info.

[RedRoxx44]

I wish they would allow the Toyota Hilux to be sold in the US. It's basically the Taco but has some seemingly beefier gearing. After all --they drove a modified one to the North Pole on that crazy British show Top Gear. It was sold in the US from like 84-88 I think, you see them around still as 2wd or 4wd --the ones with the squared flares on the wheel wheels. A lot of them are hauled down to Mexico--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux
Used in quite a few countries with machine guns mounted in the beds. Reliable and tough. I think Top Gear also had a show titled " Trying to destroy a Toyota Hilux" and it was surprising the beating it took.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TGHiluxDestroyed.jpg

[beterarcher]

I want this one!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ne_gun.jpg

[kingsnake]

betearcher: For the Phoenix commute ...

[Alston_Neal]

@RedRoxx44
Yep the Toyota is a Top Gear classic..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk

[rwstorm]

@Alston Neal
Looks like my old '85!

[The_Eagle]

@RWStorm
My GF has an 85 4 x 2 she bought new. 460k miles and still going strong. The engine has never been opened up.
She gets offers weekly to buy it.
Going up for sale soon..........

[mazatzal]

@Toyota Hilux + Top Gear ;)

[Jim]

Here is a question for fellow current and former Subaru owners, both of the Outback and Forester. However, if you had this issue with another manufacturer, was it remedied?

When you got your vehicle, did you get vibrations in it as you drove at highway speeds, such as 70, 75, or 80 MPH? My car had 5 miles on it when I picked it up, and from the moment I left the dealer and took it on I-25 south, which has smooth new asphalt as you leave Albuquerque, it had vibrations. Not severe vibrations, but very noticeable. Initially, I made several trips back to ABQ to go to the dealer to have them balance the tires and then replace the original tires with new ones, only to have the vibration continue. Initially, they said it should not do that, and acknowledged the vibration, which causes the passenger seat to visibly shake, both side mirrors to shake, and the rear seat belts to shake. I can feel the shaking in my seat, and head rest when I lean back into it. Mostly it feels like it comes from the rear, not the front, as the wheel is usually fine. Currently, the dealer says it is normal. if this is normal, I made a huge mistake buying a Subaru and highly recommend against it.

I feel it on smooth roads, not rough ones, as the road roughness overrides the low vibration from the car. Basically, the smoother the road, the worse or more noticeable the vibration is, and the more annoying it is, as it is what I consider an expensive car that is still essentially brand new. For reference, the passenger seat shakes about a 1/4 of an inch back and forth when this happens, and it is most of the time when I leave town as I drive >70 MPH. Speed Limit is usually 75. I had a 10 year old Honda Civic with 50 miles fewer than 162,000 miles on it at trade in, but the car never had this sort of vibration even at the end. When it did have vibrations from time to time, a simple tire balancing took care of it.

One interesting thing, the car was damaged in transport. This was not disclosed to me at time of purchase, but was pointed out when I returned shortly after purchase to have the initial tire balancing performed. I was told my and at least one other car were not secured well enough during shipping and they rubbed up against each other. My car has slight but visible scuffing on the rear bump, black section which faces the ground. I am concerned that cosmetic issues are not the only limitation.

I talked to one owner of a 2010, and they said their car never did that and mine shouldn't. The Dealer says I need to deal with a rep of Subaru, and also is now claiming that their other cars make the vibration as well. I bought the Outback in part because I know <10% of my total driving is off road and I wanted a car that would be smooth and comfortable at 80 MPH on long trips. It has been my experience that large trucks and the like are not, I have driven many from my years as a forester, and just wouldn't want one. If this is in fact "normal" with Suabrus, then maybe I should have bought a mid-size car that is comfortable at 80, and just skipped the minimal rough road driving. I did OK with my civic for 10 years.

So, anyway, have others had this with a brand new car, Subaru or other?

[CannondaleKid]

The Dealer says I need to deal with a rep of Subaru, and also is now claiming that their other cars make the vibration as well.

Ask the dealer to allow you to drive another new Forester to see for yourself if this is an issue for all Foresters or just yours.

If it does the same thing as yours then it's up to you if you want to live with it or make waves.
Having worked as an auto tech in dealers large and small, foreign and domestic, claiming they all do it, well personally that sounds like a cop-out by the dealer, like they don't want to deal with it. If in fact, they DO all do it I'd raise no end of pumpkin with Subaru.

If the other Forester does NOT vibrate like yours, then by all means take it up directly with the Subaru rep.
I do believe the tires/wheels changing was the right thing to start with, but since it hasn't yielded any help I'd start looking at the drive axle components. Based on what you've said that it seems more from the rear this is where I'd look:
1. Check the drive-shaft from the trans to the rear axle. If it's bent or is out-of-balance you'd have a vibration that may not be that noticeable at the steering wheel. This vibration would be on the order of frequency around 3 times of what an out-of-balance tire would exhibit.
2. Check the rear axle-shafts, if one is bent or out-of-balance you'd have a vibration. The frequency of it will be the same as an out-of-balance tire.
3. Check rear wheel bearings.
4. Check the four-wheel alignment. In this case, if a rear axle was not quite right and the car attempts to god-walk at all, that could cause a vibration, and if it's bad enough, wear on that tire.
5. I wouldn't rule out the front completely, nor would I rule out it still being a possible tire problem. To be sure I'd rotate tires front to rear to see if the vibration changes. I've seen enough tires being out-of-round or even with a stiff spot in the belt that on a spin-balancer off-the-car they may be 'dynamically weight-balanced' but on the road they have exhibit a slight bounce.

In the end, I'd recommend you keep bugging the Subaru rep until you get it resolved. Car manufacturers don't like people to 'take it to the media' or other means in order to get resolution. I know from experience...

I had enough trouble with one vehicle and one specific Mazda dealer I jumped up on my soap-box and raised so much pumpkin with Mazda over a long enough time, 6 months later Mazda pulled the franchise and the dealership closed. I believed the vehicle I purchased had been stolen off the dealer lot, recovered in a semi-stripped condition, rebuilt at the dealership then presented and sold (to me) as a new vehicle. Although I couldn't prove everything happened the way I believed, I provided enough evidence to Mazda they believed me. By then they knew my the next step was to the media if it wasn't resolved.
Frankly, it came down to Mazda caring so much more for their own reputation than for the dealer it was a no-brainer to pull the franchise.

In the end, you bought a new vehicle and should expect it to handle like a new vehicle. If it doesn't I wouldn't sit still for it.

[juliachaos]

My 2010 Outback is at 87,000+ mi, and I have never noticed this issue. My boyfriend has a 2010 Outback, and his dad has a 2012 Outback, both under 50k. They haven't noticed any shaking/vibration problems either.

[Jim]

I agree. It's an Outback, and it is not normal, nor should this be expected from what was a brand new vehicle with 5 miles on it, or one that now has about 2600 miles on it, with about half of those being from trips to ABQ to the dealer. Also, I now expect an uphill fight and believe I should basically threaten to go to the media unless it is handled and fixed.

I'm getting suspicious, as I guess I am by nature, as I was at ABQ on Friday and they told me they would contact me about the Subaru Rep this week. I heard from them today, with them telling me if I want to meet a Rep in El Paso (1/2 the distance RT to ABQ) I need to call them and work it out with the dealer there. I called El Paso, and they inform me the Texas area Rep was just here yesterday and today, and left around noon, and won't be back for a month as he only flies in from Houston for special occasions. Why the delay, why was I not informed of this yesterday or Monday? It took that long to get back to me simply to tell me to call the other dealer? I got the message at 1130 today.

I am basically fed up with the entire thing, and have really started to think I should have just bought some other car. Unless this is fix quickly, I would recommend against a Subaru. It really is a shame Honda dropped the clearance on the CRV and has plastic cases under the vehicle.

[beterarcher]

Are you sure the vibration is in the drive train? My ford explorer "vibrates" and I found that it only happens with one front window down and all the rest up.

[SuperstitionGuy]

Damaged in transport? Most likely the driver/loader over tightened the chassis and slightly bent an important part of the undercarriage that would affect the drive train. Very difficult to detect but I would bet my money that that is what happened.

[Jim]

What ever is causing it, it is happening with the windows all up, AC on, and traveling with cruise control on or off, but usually on due to my driving habits out in a rural area. I was told the car was not strapped tightly enough and moved or bounced around, causing scuffing (which is visible) on the rear bumper. It was also stated that other vehicles had similar damage. The transport company is supposed to be paying to replace the bumper. I had asked about a cash payment in stead of the a cosmetic fix, as I figured that since I planned to keep my car 8 to 10 years, it would likely have other cosmetic damage which woudln't really matter at a potential trade-in in 2021 to 2023, but now I think I should have the bumper replaced. Whether or not this caused damage is up in the air, but since I would otherwise have had to bought a car with defective parts, I lean towards damage and that source is the most likely. I wonder if I have recourse, however difficult to prove, that since it was not disclosed at time of sale, that I can get a replacement or return the car.

[azbackpackr]

I think you should threaten to go to the media if they do not replace the car. I don't think at this point you should ask for it to be repaired, that you should demand a replacement.

[Jim]

I agree, but think that will be a substantially more difficult thing to have done. I already expect to be wasting my time and money traveling to Albuquerque several more times, so they can investigate, attempt to fix the problem and do whatever else it is they will need to do. In part, this will wear me down, and that may be partly a deliberate attempt to wear my down. Only my anger will sustain me.

[Bradshaws]

@Jim_H
I deal with service writer almost everyday . The way to get them to fix anything is....Ask the service manager if the car is SAFE to drive in its present condition. When the service manager says "yes, of corse it is" ( and they will...) You say "great then you wouldn't mind putting that in writing" and that's where everything will change. I'm a mechanic and nothing makes us move faster than the SAFETY of our operators. I have yet to see this NOT work on a dealer. I hope this helps.