Secret Places - Secret Spots

montezumawell · Post by **montezumawell** » Apr 01 2003 4:43 pm

Well, here's a topic where we can all "let it hang out!"
We believe there are places that shouldn't be publicized.
We believe there are places that shouldn't wind up in Arizona Highways.
Yes, we believe there are places that shouldn't wind up on HAZ!
Or anywhere else!

What ever happened to "keeping a secret?"
Are people so motivated to "tell one another" that they ruin the last great places?
Are people so profit-motivated that they will aerobic-instructor their stories to anyone who pays?
What has happened that we have to sell our soul in order to gain appreciation?

We have no problem promoting places that can "stand a lot of usage."
We have no problem writing about places where people CAN and SHOULD go.

But what about those "other places?"
Have we forgotten the concept of "sacredness?"
Do we not care about "personal discovery" anymore?
Is nothing sacred no more?
Should everything become a "party spot?" A "destination hike?"
Has Outside and Arizona Highways magazines become the "Playboy" of the outdoors?
Sure looks like it to us. How far WILL they go to sell issues and subscriptions?

What the heck is going on here as far as Arizona's "secret places" and "secret spots?"

Are they being sold to the highest dollar? Are they all just waiting to be cover shots?

Geeze, is there no honor?

J&S

PS--Here is the definition of "secret" according to dictionary.com:

se·cret ( P ) Pronunciation Key (skrt)
adj.
Kept hidden from knowledge or view; concealed.
Dependably discreet.
Operating in a hidden or confidential manner: a secret agent.
Not expressed; inward: their secret thoughts.
Not frequented; secluded: wandered about the secret byways of Paris.
Known or shared only by the initiated: secret rites.
Beyond ordinary understanding; mysterious.
Containing information, the unauthorized disclosure of which poses a grave threat to national security.

n.
Something kept hidden from others or known only to oneself or to a few.
Something that remains beyond understanding or explanation; a mystery.
A method or formula on which success is based: The secret of this dish is in the sauce.
Secret A variable prayer said after the Offertory and before the Preface in the Mass.

mttgilbert · Post by **mttgilbert** » Apr 01 2003 6:42 pm

I agree completely. There are places that can and should be kept secret. I know of several places that shouldn't be available to the general population. Some on HAZ some not. Of course I refrain from mentioning my secrets here. I have been going to these places since I was a lot younger and I have seen the degredation caused by heavy traffic.
I think that people just want to prove what great hikers and explorers they are. They do so by sharing some really great or "secret" spot with anyone and everyone. Whether they actually discovered it for themselves or heard about it from someone else. Its the same with the magazines, they want to be the best magazine with the best hiking destinations. It all comes down to some sense of pride. Of course the people who find out about these places can't be blamed, I know I wouldnt pass on the opportunity to see a really great site. Of course I would rather find it by the old fashioned proccess of trial and error. Its really more satisfying that way.
I would be interested to hear what prompted this "let it all hang out topic".

montezumawell · Post by **montezumawell** » Apr 01 2003 6:56 pm

matt gilbert wrote: I would be interested to hear what prompted this "let it all hang out topic".

Mostly the showcasing of various Native American sacred places by Arizona Highways.
For decades, Arizona Highways avoid such displays. Not any more!

youngboy · Post by **youngboy** » Apr 01 2003 7:08 pm

matt gilbert wrote:There are places that can and should be kept secret

I totally agree.

mttgilbert · Post by **mttgilbert** » Apr 01 2003 7:09 pm

Looks like its time to find a watchdog for the watchdog. But I doubt that would do any good, unfortunately.
I would be happy to join you in a boycott of Arizona Highways, but again, I don't think it would do any good.

Nighthiker · Post by **Nighthiker** » Apr 02 2003 7:04 am

I have been receiving Arizona Highways since I move here in 1967. I enjoy the magazine very much and I learned long ago that when an article features an article, I avoid the area.

plummer150 · Post by **plummer150** » Apr 02 2003 8:07 am

Agreed. DO NOT REVEAL!!

montezumawell · Post by **montezumawell** » Apr 02 2003 6:14 pm

A couple of weeks ago we "found" a 150' vertical waterfall. It was pretty apparent to us that no one knew about it. There was no "human sign," current or past. From our accidental "discovery" process, we became fairly certain that it was reasonable to believe it hadn't been "D&D'd" (discovered and documented) by anyone with a pen and/or mouse. Susun and I had a LOOONG conversation about whether to "report" this discovery. We emphatically decided "no way."
Sorry, but it's just "one of those things." We're certain that if you ever stumble on to this waterfall, you will face the same "personal challenge." To report, or not to report. An eternal question.

J&S

Nighthiker · Post by **Nighthiker** » Apr 02 2003 7:13 pm

Arizona Highways ? Review BoynHisDog photo's.

cactuscat · Post by **cactuscat** » Apr 03 2003 5:08 pm

montezumawell wrote:
Mostly the showcasing of various Native American sacred places by Arizona Highways.
For decades, Arizona Highways avoid such displays. Not any more!

Are you talking about the article on the Sipapu? I was really surprised when I read that - they didn't even bother to mention that it's a sacred sight that the Hopi's ask you to avoid!

mountain goat · Post by **mountain goat** » Apr 16 2003 12:47 pm

come on guys, you can tell me

I am into having secrete areas and such but I do like to share my findings with close friends that I know have good ethecs and wont develope a McDonalds on the spot. but I would rather leave the vast majority in ignorance

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Jun 27 2006 1:13 pm

Aha! It's the survey questions that are bringing up old topics, and bringing back old memories. We haven't heard from montezumawell in quite a while

.

Anyway, I voted "it depends". I won't give away someone else's secret without asking. I would never give away the Sipapu. However, I don't have much in the way of secret spots myself. The places I love most are too much work for the typical secret-spot-wrecker to access. I guess that implies that all easily-accessible spots are already wrecked, which isn't entirely true, but it's close enough for a generalization.

PaleoRob · Post by **PaleoRob** » Jun 27 2006 8:37 pm

Secret places are to remain secret! I voted it depends. I'll take someone to a secret spot that I've discovered on my own, if I know they're going to respect that area, but I'd never give out directions to just anyone who asked.
But the more people who know about a secret place, yes, the more likely it is to be impared, but at the same time, the more likely it is to be eventually protected. Its something I've put much thought into this whole subject often, and I'm writing something on the subject as well (whether it'll ever see the light of the press is a question I can't answer).

Secret Places - Secret Spots

Would YOU reveal a "secret spot?"

Secret Places - Secret Spots

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