Piestewa Peak

montezumawell · Post by **montezumawell** » Apr 08 2003 7:01 am

The April 8 Arizona Republic contained an editorial urging the renaming of Phoenix's Squaw Peak to Piestewa Peak in honor of Tuba City Heroine Lori Piestwea, killed early in the Iraq War.

The Peak was renamed 4/17. Congratulations.

J&S

PS--Of those 31 HAZ members who dared to reply to the poll, the vote was 24 "NO" and 7 "YES."

youngboy · Post by **youngboy** » Apr 08 2003 7:22 am

too many innocent people have died for this pointless war, i think its unfair to honor just one.

fatoldsun · Post by **fatoldsun** » Apr 08 2003 8:17 am

montezumawell wrote:The April 8 Arizona Republic contains an editorial urging the renaming of Phoenix's Squaw Peak to Piestewa Peak in honor of Tuba City Heroine Lori Piestwea, killed early in the Iraq War.

This represents another round in the on-going controversy about the use of "squaw" as a geographic place name. The controversy is far too long standing and complex to recap here.

The purpose of this topic is simply to take a poll of your thoughts on the matter.

J&S

Quite honestly, I hike to get away from the cares of the world such as political and social matters, of which some seem to be insolvable. If I get into a political or sociological debate here then it would defeat the entire purpose of me being a member of this site, to me, so I choose to abstain from a preference. What we name something often detracts from the inherent qualities of the thing that is named anyway. When I look at Squaw Peak, whether from the parking lot where I work when I'm outside taking a break or driving by it on the 51, I don't think of it's name or an Indian squaw and the many abuses that has been inflicted on these women over the centuries. I try to take in the entire majesty of not only that peak but the entire surrounding area. What it's named is completely secondary or even tertiary in my mind. We just need to name something so we all know of what we're talking about, so it's got to be named something. If it is officially renamed, people will still call it "Squaw Peak" because that is what is has been known by for years. Call it Apple-Pie-Alamode-Peak for all I care, it'll always be known to me as The-Beautiful-Little-Peak-I-Gaze-At-While-Driving-On-One-Of-My-Mellow-Drives-Around-Phoenix-On-Highway-51-While-Thinking-In-My-Mind-That-I've-Done-The-Circumference-Trail-Two-Times-And-Hoping-To-Do-More, but obviously no one is going to name it to that so I forget about what the world calls something and enjoy IT for what IT is.

sidhayes · Post by **sidhayes** » Apr 08 2003 10:15 am

Youngboy: It may be pointless to you but just perhaps it has some point to others. I hope that you search for their points and decide rationally if any are valid.

MtnGeek · Post by **MtnGeek** » Apr 08 2003 11:37 am

As far as the mountains and outdoors go Lori Piestewa had done nothing for Arizona. If they name it after a person I think it should be significance to the area or mountain climbing in Arizona. I dont
think it's right to name it after somebody who died in war. Why pick a Hopi over another race? What about the other people that died? Do they get a mountain named after them?

I don't think its right to pick one person out. Or am I misinformed, and she is the first Arizonian to die in this war?

MaryPhyl · Post by **MaryPhyl** » Apr 08 2003 2:56 pm

If the Indians don't like the name squaw being used then changing the name for Lori Piestewa might come across like we thought she was a squaw?

I am sure something in Northern Arizona will be done for her--she does not belong to Phoenix area.

youngboy · Post by **youngboy** » Apr 08 2003 9:19 pm

sidhayes wrote:Youngboy: It may be pointless to you but just perhaps it has some point to others. I hope that you search for their points and decide rationally if any are valid.

not to sound like a jerk, but "Saddam is bad" isnt a big enough reason to me for the US invade iraq, but one could argue forever on points whether or not is was necessary, until they were blue in the face and still no decision could be made :roll:

MaryPhyl · Post by **MaryPhyl** » Apr 09 2003 7:21 am

I have been against this war but the jubilation in Baghdad this morning is making me think.

Sredfield · Post by **Sredfield** » Apr 09 2003 10:06 am

My head and heart have been all over on this war, and I'm not sure I have come to any resolutions.

I do know that once there, we need to go all out to get it done quickly, and be smart about how we help and guide what happens next.

I believe an arab nation modeling a successful democracy in that region, with oil revenue to pay for itself, would do the world a lot of good.

Glitter · Post by **Glitter** » Apr 10 2003 11:49 am

I don't think it is appropriate to rename a mountain after ONE person, when their have been so many that have died. It's sounds like a nice gesture at first, but she should be honored in some other way.

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Apr 10 2003 7:15 pm

I certainly agree with MaryPhyl. I don't think that placing her name (Lori's, not Mary Phyl's) on a peak in Phoenix surrounded by bahana controversy is respectful to her memory or her family. I think that her clan and the Hopi Tribe may wish to make a request which the entire state could take to honor her. I don't recall anything named for Ira Hayes, by the way....(for the youngsters, he was a Gila River Tribal member who was one of the flag raisers on Iwo Jima). Someone on the radio suggested a dedicated slot machine in each casino, which is worse, given the Hopi stand on gaming.

Many people share concerns about the war, and more have jumped on the bandwagon since things are going our way. I won't use this forum for a lengthy dialogue on that topic, but would add this: Saddam's butchers averaged 200,000 executions per year. We are causing a net savings of civilian lives, even with collateral damage (by the way, that phrase was never used in WW2; over 200,000 civilians died in the firebombing of Dresden Germany, more than Hiroshima).

My two cents worth is that if this action can prevent the dropping of Iraqi nuclear material or chemical weapons on Israeli civilians, it is well worth it. Saddam had murals all over Bagdad showing him liberating the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, astride a white horse, waving a sword. Since 2000, the number of Israeli civilian deaths from terror bombings is (after which Saddam gave thousands of dollars to the family of each "Martyr"), percentage wise, equivalent to the US losing 100,000 on 9/11.

Abe · Post by **Abe** » Apr 13 2003 8:09 am

An emotional/political subject indeed. I am one which voted yes. I have no problems renaming Squaw Peak to Piestewa Peak. She is, after all the, first Native American Woman killed while serving in the U.S. Army. I will leave it at that.

However, in closing, for those who wish to learn more about Ira Hayes, I would suggest reading "Flags of Our Fathers" by James Bradley, which records the lives of the five Marines and one Navy corpman (doc) raising the flag on Mount Suribachi, Iwo Jima. His life can best be described as tragic after the flag raising. He is one of three that survived the battle for Iwo Jima. He is a classic "hell for leather" beer drinking Marine on the borderline of being insubordinate and for him the heroes were the ones dead and buried on Iwo Jima. He did watch the dedication of the U.S. Marine Corps Memorial, in Arlington, Virgina, November 10th, 1954. This is the famous monument depicting the flag raising. On the morning of January 24th, 1955, "They found Ira's body nearby, next to a disused rusting car: lying facedown in a pool of his own vomit and blood." He had drank heavily the night before with friends and on his way home passed out. The hero of the flag raising finally went home to the heroes who died before him almost 10 years prior.

azhiker96 · Post by **azhiker96** » Apr 13 2003 9:06 pm

I wish the politicians would spend at least half as much energy on solving the budget crisis as they do on trying to be politically correct. I don't remember reading in the constitution that people have a right to be free from being offended. Besides, is this really a burning issue for the majority of Arizona's Indians or just a few who want face time in front of a camera?
Good Grief, there's too many people out there looking for things to protest or find offensive. If we really want to protect the sensibilities of American Indians we should rename everything with the place names that existed before European settlers came on the scene.
Really though, regarding the renaming of Squaw Peak. Why not use elevation for a name. If you measure it accurately and take out out 5 or 6 decimal points we should be able to discerne between all the peaks in the state. In the unlikely event of a tie, a coin toss and a few strokes with a file would be the tie-breaker.
Anyway, I'm still sad that Highway 191 was renamed. I think we lost a link to the past with that bow to the superstitious.

tinyelvis · Post by **tinyelvis** » Apr 14 2003 5:26 pm

You know, I am sensitive to the root context, origin of the word, but there was an article published (and I wish I could find it now) in the Trib or the Republic about a month back and using the research of many esteemed historians and linguists, they could not find any such correlation tracing "squaw" back to words similar to "aerobic-instructor," or "female genitalia." Simply put, this whole issue is null and void. There is a chance that some group, or band could have picked up the word and used it as "slang," but there is no definitive meaning.
IN OTHER NEWS: They actually debated this issue on the floor of the House chambers today, April 14th. Even though it had nothing to do with a particular bill, or amendment, the members (both Rep. and Dem) managed to politicize this issue in response to the GOV's comments this weekend.
Napolitano saw it as an opportunity to make "lemonade out of lemons." Dem. Leader john Loredo said, "unless you have some type of ownership of the word 'squaw,' or unless you would like to defend the word 'squaw,' I don't see why this has to be partisan. Here's the problem that I have. For one, she was an Indian from the Hopi reservation. How far away is the Hopi reservation? Shouldn't we memorialize her with a physical monument closer to her family, place of birth?
If we want to truly honor her, why can't we do it with a monument in Wesley Bolin Park as we have done with Pearl Harbor, father Kino, recently 9/11, etc.? How much will it cost to change maps, signs, etc.?
What good is this really going to do for Piestewa's family, more importantly her two young children? Will this put food on there tables? Will the children be able to afford new clothes using park entrance fees? I don't think so. The real effort should be made in ensuring that those children never have to worry another day of their lives about where their future lies. A right granted by her sacrifice.
What about all of the other young troops killed in action from Arizona? Granted, they were not Indian, and they were not female, but were their lives lost in vain? Were they any less important?
This whole issue has been picked up (mainly by the Democrats of this state) to push forth an agenda of a name change that has been proposed time and time again. It sickens me that anyone would ride the coattails of her death in order to make a headline.
Leave the mountain alone, and honor her when this isn't such a political firestorm.
Also, as for the limitations on five years, that is a minute issue in the whole scope of this political game. Hurdles can be circumvented, I heard the Governor on the radio today saying she would change the peak with, or without the approval of the Board.
Also, demanding resignation of Director? Hadn't heard this, maybe retaliation for the forced recognition of DES head a month ago?
Finally, if you're going to rename anything, rename Tuba City for God's sake.

tempe8 · Post by **tempe8** » Apr 14 2003 11:44 pm

All good points (above 2 posts).

Besides the whole debate on renaming for Piestewa, what's got me bothered is the way the Governor is politizing this thing...she just asked for the resignation of Tim Norton, the chairman of the Arizona State Board on Geographic and Historic Names!?!? For what!?!? All he did was his job, he simply stated that federal and state rules prohibit renaming in honor of a deceased person within five years...and she asks him to resign!? She can have her own political opinions, but I think she's crossing the line here with an abuse of power by trying to intimidate. If she doesn't like the law as it stands, fine, do something about it. That's what goverment is for, to adapt laws that reflect the will of the people...so have a vote, have an election...but don't try to steam roll your opinion on others.

hoppy47m · Post by **hoppy47m** » Apr 15 2003 10:59 am

Why have a huge controversy over renaming a pile of rock?? Sheesh, it doesn't make any difference what it is named, someone with no life will argue the point!! Just name the thing and get it over with....why spend thousands and thousands of dollars debating the point. Most are probably against it because they can't spell or pronounce the name!!

jmzblond · Post by **jmzblond** » Apr 16 2003 4:20 pm

Woohoo... you go, Tempe8!!

I have many opinions, but no more fuel for this fire.

Hallelujah for democracy and freedom!! And I thank God every day for all the men and women past, present, and future who are willing to sacrifice their lives, their freedoms, their comforts, safety and security for me and mine. Their fight, lives, and beliefs are not POINTLESS to me, nor will lives freed from oppression, intimidation, torture, and poverty. There is a purpose, a cause, and a belief whether agreed upon or not. All of the men and women that have lost their lives have done so w/ honor, dignity and pride for something that they appreciated and dedicated their lives to... not only preserving what they had, but promoting it for others as well. They are willing to fight for those who cannot fight for themselves. They, as well as their loved ones, are in my thoughts and prayers daily. And for the rest of my life, I will honor them and show that their sacrifices were not in vain. I will honor and support this country in whatever capacity I can. I am going to live my life to the fullest and appreciate all that I am blessed with, as they would've done w/ their lives. I am going to hike every mountain and canyon, regardless of its name. And I'm going to be thankful for every step!! I'm going to hug my children every morning, noon, and night. I'm going to tell my family how much I love them every chance I get. And I'm going to let my friends know how much they mean to me!! Life is too short and precious. We all need to spend more time living, appreciating, enjoying, smiling, loving, and being happy.

MaryPhyl · Post by **MaryPhyl** » Apr 16 2003 7:24 pm

An article in the local Flagstaff paper says that the family has asked that the peak not be named for her.

mtoomeyaz · Post by **mtoomeyaz** » Apr 16 2003 10:44 pm

This whole thing got me worked up. First I was going to write here. Instead, I wrote the governor. I agree with Tempe8 that not so much the name but the disregard for process by the governor that irritates me. My stepson is "over there" and I promised to honor him by excersizing my freedom, so I did. Just as jmzblond suggests "Hallelujah for democracy and freedom". Now Maryphyl's info that this isn't even in line with the family's wishes is just the icing on the cake. Well... I feel better now.

pfredricks · Post by **pfredricks** » Apr 17 2003 12:36 pm

I am grateful for the sacrifice that Ms Piestewa made for our country. This appears to be more about headline grabbing and getting political recognition than honoring a fallen soldier. It is easy to say we should honor a fallen soldier. It is a win/win for Napolitano. It would be hard to speak against that. But what are we doing to honor Michael Williams of Phoenix? He was a local guy. I believe that the five year waiting thing is a great idea for specifically situations like this. Good thing for checks and balances.
The military just went and fought a guy that didnt believe in following the rules in his country, now our Governor is acting as if our laws don't apply to her. Sickening.
My thoughts are with all of those that lost the ones they love.

Piestewa Peak

Piestewa Peak

Re: Piestewa Peak

Squaw?

other Arizonans have died also