Kayaks......Sit on Top...or Traditional

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Which do you prefer

Sit on Top
19
37%
Traditional
32
63%
 
Total votes: 51

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hoppy47m
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Kayaks......Sit on Top...or Traditional

Post by hoppy47m » Mar 17 2003 8:54 pm

Which do you prefer and why....do you know the pro's and cons?? I am debating on getting a "sit on top"..........not sure tho..... :o
Hoppy

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hoppy47m
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Post by hoppy47m » Mar 22 2003 12:21 pm

How did this end up to be a poll? I guess I'm not familiar with the workings of this site yet........I'm trying !!!!

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JohnB
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Post by JohnB » Apr 10 2003 8:39 am

Great question. I'm in the same "boat," wondering which is better. I'll soon have access to a relatively quiet and private creek, but I've never tried kayaking at all. I'm looking forward to your results!

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Daryl
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Post by Daryl » Apr 10 2003 4:25 pm

A sit on top kayak has disadvantages and advantages but I'd stick with a traditional kayak:

Disadvantages: You can't store any gear/equipment thus it's not a good long trip kayak. You sit higher on the water so it won't be as good in moving water and you are more likely to get wet. It has holes in it so water doesn't pool inside, but if you weight more then 200 pounds water will pool inside because of the holes.

Advantages: They are cheaper. If you roll it, all you have to do is roll it back over and get in (as opposed to dragging it to shore and draining all the water out).

I would strongly reccomend the sit inside kind. My reccomendation is the Perception Swifty. It's a good boat for moderate rapids, it's very stable and it's $299 + 10% off at popular right now. The Old Town Loons are also a great boat, they are a little bigger, heavier, more stable, stronger, and cost $500-600.

I own a Swifty and use it 2-3 times a month when there is water flowing (Salt river gets turned on in May, Verde river has been flowing nicely the last few weeks...).
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tempe8
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Post by tempe8 » Apr 11 2003 7:55 am

Maybe you could try out some different ones here and ask questions to the manufacturers.

REI Paddlesports Day
Join REI in welcoming our canoe and kayak manufacturer representatives to
Kiwanis Park Lake. This event will offer you the ability to try out boats,
paddles and PFD's while receiving expert advice from REI staff as well as from
the representatives.
* April 12th, 2003
* 10:00am to 3:00pm
* At Kiwanis Park Lake in Tempe
* FREE
Call 602.996.5400 or 480.967.5494 of info

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hoppy47m
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Post by hoppy47m » Apr 15 2003 11:06 am

Thanks for the responses! The first thing I notice as well was there isn't any place to put any gear. As far as rolling it, well I am going to roll just about anything I get into it seems. I have flipped my canoe a couple of times trying to imitate Mr Powell and hitting water where I had no business being in with a canoe (couldn't turn around :o ) I have looked at those swifty kayaks many times, I keep procrastinating tho. Right now there is a discount at Popular going on and with my mega buck Happy Camper card discount the price is real reasonable. So......it looks as tho I will have one of each........sit on....and sit in.....either way I will end up wet I'm sure. Now I have to buy a trailer to haul all this stuff on!!

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Daryl
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Post by Daryl » Apr 15 2003 11:49 am

If you want to save a few more bucks... I just learned this the other day. Perception Kayaks and Mainstream Kayaks are owned by the same comapany (Watermark) and share the same engineers, same factory.... Mainstream makes a kayak called the streak, that is the same as the swifty except the deck rigging is on the front instead of the back and different color options. It's made from the same material on the same mold. The streak is $239 at at Sports Authority, the Swifty is normally $369, on sale for $299 at popular.
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hoppy47m
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Post by hoppy47m » Apr 15 2003 12:26 pm

Hey.....thanks Daryl!!!! I'm up in Prescott but the savings would warrant a trip down to get one of those........hmmmm maybe 2 at that price. Dang, looks like I'm going to need a BIG trailer!!
Thanks again

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Re: Kayaks......Sit on Top...or Traditional

Post by ssk44 » Sep 04 2008 5:38 pm

Sit-on-top kayaks are excellent for fishing and general recreation. Sit-on-tops are terrible in rough water, slow, and are very wet. If you want to cover any significant distance over large bodies of water a traditional day touring boat is the only way to go. When your five miles from your truck after paddling glass water all morning and all of a sudden a ten to fifteen mph headwind kicks up you do not want to be sitting in a sit-on-top kayak. If you only paddle about one to two miles from your truck in fairly protected waters you will be fine. A well designed day touring boat is surprisingly efficient when paddling into a heavy wind. Two examples of very good day touring boats are the Wilderness Pungo 140 and the Wilderness Sunami 140. The Pungo 140 offers more versatility for fishing yet is still a fast boat.
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djui5
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Re: Kayaks......Sit on Top...or Traditional

Post by djui5 » Sep 05 2008 6:51 pm

Wow this thread is over 5 years old :sl:

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azbackpackr
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Re: Kayaks......Sit on Top...or Traditional

Post by azbackpackr » Sep 05 2008 8:01 pm

Wow, here I am reading all the posts, and most of them are from 2003, as you said!

I have about given up trying to find anyone to teach me the Eskimo Roll in my kayak up here in the White Mtns. I am afraid to mess with it unless I have someone to teach me. I'm going down to Yuma in November to spend the winter--and I know there is a teacher there because I talked to her. There are very few real kayaking instructors in Arizona. Most people who are calling themselves kayaking instructors I have found out are doing the sit-on-top kayaks and they don't even know how to do the Eskimo Roll. I also found out that the Southern Arizona Paddlers' Club does not currently have anyone using a traditional kayak and they have no one to teach the skills!

Learning the roll is very necessary in the traditional kayak. You don't want to be messing with a traditional kayak without some sort of safety and roll lessons. You "wear" a kayak, and you don't want to get upside down without having someone help you learn to get out of the boat while you're upside down and how to roll back up again.

My kayak is an old Perception Dancer.
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Re: Kayaks......Sit on Top...or Traditional

Post by Hoffmaster » Sep 06 2008 8:58 am

A buddy of mine was teaching me to roll in his pool earlier this summer. It is very hard! I gave it about 20 tries and was very unsuccessful. It is a counter-intuitive movement. I can pull the skirt off and exit the kayak like a champ though....in a pool! I'm a wuss.
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azbackpackr
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Re: Kayaks......Sit on Top...or Traditional

Post by azbackpackr » Sep 09 2008 5:09 am

I'm pretty good in the water. (People used to say I was a seal.) I'm the kind of person who enjoys bodysurfing and boogie boarding and falling off the board and getting "washing-machined" tumbling around underneath the waves.

Anyway, I have heard that the roll is very hard, from most people I've talked to. Counter-intuitive, as you said, Matt, not a natural movement, and I have heard you have to practice and practice once you do get it in order to get it into muscle memory. I have heard only a very few (presumably very well-coordinated) people say it isn't very hard. I have heard it takes some upper body strength. I have also heard it's all in skill and it DOESN'T take much upper body strength.

Any comments from someone who actually knows the roll?
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Re: Kayaks......Sit on Top...or Traditional

Post by driftwood » Oct 03 2008 6:53 pm

I learned the roll about two years ago. It took me forever to learn it. It's kinda slow going because every time you mess up you have to bail out of the kayak, empty the water out, get back in, and try again. The day I got it right I kept trying til I did 40 successful rolls, because I was scared that if I didn't repeat it correctly then my body would forget how to do it.

Since then I've found one person who knew how to roll, and worked out some basic drills for working your way up to a roll, so that you don't have to go from knowing nothing to trying to roll. The guy I taught picked it up his first try, but he was an MMA fighter, so he had a lot of training in body coordination.

If anyone wants to learn how to roll, I'd be glad to teach them. I sold my boats when I moved out here, because I didn't know what the water situation was going to be. If you have a boat, and a pool to practice in, I'll teach you. PM me if you're interested. I live in Tempe.

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Re: Kayaks......Sit on Top...or Traditional

Post by driftwood » Oct 03 2008 6:56 pm

And to answer the last post, the amount of upper-body strength it takes is kinda like rock climbing: You can use all upper body strength and force your way there, or if you use proper form it takes much less upper body strength. When you learn to do it properly, you'll use less and less muscle. The form really makes the roll successful. When you learn to roll with a paddle, you have a large broad surface to pull with, which means you can use muscle. People who perfect their form can do a roll with just their hands, which means they're using their torso for most of the motion, and a small surface to pull against the water.

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Re: Kayaks......Sit on Top...or Traditional

Post by azbackpackr » Oct 04 2008 3:00 pm

I just signed up for a kayaking class in Nov. in Yuma. The boats used for the class are all sit-on-tops, but the teacher does know the roll, and says she'll try to find time to teach it to me outside the class. So I plan to just learn what I can from that class, general knowledge, and then hopefully there will be an available pool and she'll have time to meet with me in the weeks after the class. I will be in Yuma from Nov. to April, and also plan to do a multi-day river trip there, seeing as there is the perfect river for a newbie there, over 100 miles of undammed Colorado River, with no real rapids.

I just bought new PFD and sprayskirt from NRS for my traditional whitewater kayak. I have a paddle, but it's a cheap one, but it does have an offset blade, about 45 degree angle. I have Bomb-Proof Roll book and a roll DVD. I understand I will want to get a better paddle later on. I have heard that flotation bags inside the boat will really help when you get upside down, also, especially in the learning process, but I haven't gotten those yet. I have a VERY limited budget!

Driftwood, I may get in touch with you later next spring about this if I have no success in Yuma at learning! I really appreciate your input.
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Re: Kayaks......Sit on Top...or Traditional

Post by PrestonSands » Jul 08 2013 8:48 pm

I'm looking at buying a kayak soon for roaming around lakes and rivers, as well as for overnight camping trips (so I'll need cargo space for gear). Any suggestions for a newbie as far as sit on top/inside, long or short hull? I'm 6' 4", 195 lbs, with long legs, if that makes a difference...
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azbackpackr
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Re: Kayaks......Sit on Top...or Traditional

Post by azbackpackr » Jul 08 2013 9:01 pm

If it's for flat water, you want a longer boat that tracks well and has waterproof cargo hatches, possibly with a rudder or skeg. You want to make sure it is going to fit you. Craigslist is a good bet, if you keep watching. There are a lot of online reviews, paddle dot net, etc.
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
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Re: Kayaks......Sit on Top...or Traditional

Post by imike » Jul 09 2013 7:08 pm

I've got an old (never used!) Seda Ocean kayak (kevlar layup)... rudder control foot pegs... I paid $1400 for it back in the early 80's... loaned it out a few times but never used it. Always thought I'd go back and do the Texas Water Safari again, but I don't think that's going to happen. I'd sell it for $200 to the right person... It is oriented for lots of gear, but hatch access is limited. Big... light weight...
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