Need for GPS on AZT

[packtoter]

Planning a thru-hike. Have hiked CDT in 1999 and GDT in 2001 without a GPS. Will a GPS be helpful here or is the AZT fairly well marked? According to AZT site it sounds like there are a lot of false junctions near the border. Is this a problem or overstated? Any comments would be appreciated.
--Keep Smilin'

[Sredfield]

Many people do the trail without GPS. Personally, I wouldn't, the miles I hike where I don't know where I am are very long ones. The places people seem to have the most trouble are where the trail leaves the old roads. Carsonites get knocked down or hidden or simply missed. I've gone out to fix spots seasoned hikers complain about and don't see how they could miss the sign, but then when I am doing that I know where I'm going and where the trail is, I haven't hiked 15 miles, and am usually much fresher than the hiker. Definitely get the topo maps if not the GPS tracks.

[big_load]

I would rather have one than not, especially if your not used to hiking in the Southwest. One arroyo can look an awful lot like the next.

[kingsnake]

And if you get in trouble, or run out of water, nearest pavement could easily be 30 very hot miles away. Carry a magnetic compass as backup. Probably a beacon of some kind as well. Topo would not hurt, but that's a lot of volume for a trail that long ...

[RowdyandMe]

I use My Tracks on my Galaxy s3. I doesn't have maps like a regular gps ,but it shows me where I have been. Which will show me the way back to my car. I know I have made some wrong turns along the way and occasionally break trail to explore. One thing is for sure as long as I turn on my tracks when I leave I can always find my way back.
PS. It is a good idea to have backup battery pack.
When I am hiking in the Superstitions I always turn off my wifi and bluetooth to make my battery last longer. After all there is no wifi in the supes.

[blisterfree]

Carry topo maps over GPS, yes, but not all at once. Send maps to town stops, per usual for long- distance hiking.

[FOTG]

@blisterfree
I am sure I am reading it wrong, but you are not implying that carrying a map and GPS at same time is too cumbersome right? are you suggesting to send the maps ahead and pick them up at stops along the way?...I know the AZT trail requires multiple maps, but I mean the heaviest map in the world cant weigh an ounce does it? I carry compass, map, and GPS at all times..but that may be the over-planner in me..I would rather carry an extra few ounces worth of maps a hundred times, than no map ever and need it once ;)

[chumley]

@blisterfree
I am sure I am reading it wrong...I mean the heaviest map in the world cant weigh an ounce does it?

Yeah, I think he's suggesting sending different map packs to the various resupply points along the route.

Believe it or not, but 800-miles worth of 1:24,000 topographical maps would probably weigh more than you would want to carry on a through hike!

[chumley]

For the record, Garmin has a GPS map exclusively of the entire AZT (and 10-miles on either side of it). To cross threads, you can buy it on an SD card that even works in older eTrex models

[FOTG]

@chumley
lol I figured I was not thinking it through correctly...I was like what? a map too heavy to carry, but that makes sense..my apologies Blister Free!

[garyc57]

I'll be the first to admit I'm no expert, but... here's my take on the subject.

I've only hiked 5 segments so far, and for the most part, the trail has been very obvious. There has been only one time I lost the trail completely. We were hiking N-S on the Happy Jack segment, and the trail took a jog that I missed. I had my GPS, so I knew where the trail was "supposed" to be, so we just kept hiking, and eventually we rejoined the trail.

On the flip side, I was hiking N-S on the Mormon Lake segment, and the trail did NOT follow the official, downloaded-from-the-AZT-website GPS track. Not anywhere close! I ended up bushwhacking back to the GPS track (as much "bush" as there was - it was up by Marshall Lake - not many bushes there!), and I followed the GPS track for a mile or so, until the trail rejoined the track. Apparently, the AZT had done a re-route, and not updated the GPS track. [If I may put a plug in here - HAZ had the correct track; it followed the trail. Thanks Joe!]

Oops - now I remember another time. We really used the GPS was on the Saddle Mountain segment. They've had a fire there, and subsequently, a lot of erosion. While hiking that, we lost the trail several times, and would have been SOL without the GPS. Of course, that says something about my "map and compass" skills, doesn't it?

All said and done, I carry the GPS to make me feel "warm and fuzzy." It's mostly for reassurance that - yes, I'm on the right track, and headed in the right direction. If you have good trail finding skills, and have a topo map and compass, and know how to use them - just in case, you should do just fine.

Please, let us know how it goes!

[Sredfield]

On the flip side, I was hiking N-S on the Mormon Lake segment, and the trail did NOT follow the official, downloaded-from-the-AZT-website GPS track. Not anywhere close!

The ATA website shows that the tracks and waypoint files for Passages 29 and 30 were last updated in March of 2013. If you downloaded them prior to that date, there may be some differences. I know some work was done up there last summer.

If that doesn't explain it, can you send me specifics and I'll look into it? We try to keep these as up to date as possible. Thanks!

[blisterfree]

The AZ Trail topo map set available thru aztrail.org will print double-sided onto 65 sheets of standard 8.5 x 11. That's actually more weight and bulk than most thru-hikers would want to carry at once, but since most thru-thikers rely on maildrops to one extent or another, there's really no impediment to carrying good maps on the trail. GPS is fine, too, and one could always start out carrying both paper maps and GPS, and then see whether the latter is a worthwhile adjunct to the maps. If not, send it home, no harm no foul.

Garmin's AZT data card vs. the topo map set is a separate discussion. I haven't used Garmin's product but it's my understanding that it incorporates the official AZT trail track files with Garmin's existing POI database, and does not highlight AZT-specific data book POI's, whereas the topo map set does.

[packtoter]

I appreciate all the input. I have purchased a Garmin etrex 20. Never having a GPS I am going through the learning curve. If I am correct I need to now purchase software like NatGeo Topo! Right? I then download waypoint info from AZ trail site and punch it into GPS memory? Sorry to sound so lame. I will eventually figure it all out, but having some direction (no pun intended) would help. Perhaps all I need are a few waypoints. I am thinking of this device as good insurance when the route is in doubt. Also for locating water sources. Thanks in advance.
--Keep Smilin'

[CannondaleKid]

If I am correct I need to now purchase software like NatGeo Topo!

No, that is not necessary and in my opinion, a waste of money. I bought NatGeo Topo some time back for the maps but it was a big disappointment... I didn't think he maps were that good, the program takes forever to load (even on a fast PC) it took my tracks and broke them up into individual waypoints and it just wasn't very intuitive and thus hard to use.

My recommendation would be to plan your routes with Route Manager here on HikeArizona (http://hikearizona.com/rm) and use the FREE Garmin software (BaseCamp) for transfers to/from your device.

[kingsnake]

Ditto, and for maps, never pay for what you can (legally) get for free ...

[blisterfree]

The eTrex 20 is drag-and-drop compatible, so you don't really need any external software to interface with a PC. Just download all of the track and waypoint files from aztrail.org (here, after logging in: http://www.aztrail.org/passages/passages.php), then connect your GPS via the supplied USB cord, locate the GPX subfolder using your PC's file browser, and copy the AZT files into there. Then eject your GPS from your PC, unplug the cord, power up the unit, go into the unit's Tracks folder (click the Back button until it comes up) and confirm they're all there. Finally, go into Waypoint Manager (icon located on the "Where to" screen) and see if you get a running list of waypoints. If your device was empty before loading AZT waypoints then this would be confirmation that they're on the device.

Waypoints and tracks and how and when to use each - separate discussion. Lots of info out there though.

You also might choose to pick up topographic base maps from Garmin (on a micro SD card) , which offers better detail than the built-in maps on the unit.

Or skip all of the above and instead purchase Garmin's new AZT-specific data card. (Has anyone used this who could confirm its utility / accuracy etc?)

The micro SD card goes into the back of the eTrex unit, inside the battery compartment.

[azbackpackr]

Joe didn't recommend Base Camp at all when he was helping me with mine. At least not for the one function I use mine for, which is to upload to HAZ for my triplogs and routes! I think I did upload it but then I never looked at it. I am not going to be able figure stuff out without a lot of help. It just doesn't work for me. There is no way in a thousand years I would have figured out on my own the steps I have to take to put my routes onto here. Joe helped me, step by baby step!

An entire semester could be spent on learning GPS functions and uses, for many of us. But where is it offered? A weekend course wouldn't get it for me. I would learn maybe one or two small things. I have to repeat the same steps dozens of times in order to remember them.

[packtoter]

I think I am rounding the curve. I have Apple devices so I believe I need to use Garmin BaseCamp. So, map sections of the trail from HAZ, downloaded to my MacBookPro using BaseCamp, then AZT track data, mix it all together and load it onto the Etrex20 and Voila!
Am I getting close Blisterfree? I have emailed Garmin to see how often, or if they ever update the Arizona Trail card they sell, but have not heard back. That could be a simple solution, but then I wouldn't learn anything.
I'm sure a few more YouTube classes and actually using my new satellite snagger, and I will figure out all the pieces to this puzzle. It will be different doing a long trail and actually knowing where the heck I am. Thanks for all the input. --Keep Smilin'

[blisterfree]

Not sure about HAZ base map(?) and AZT track mashups, but the files on aztrail.org, downloaded to your Mac, should still be accessible to your eTrex 20 directly via USB tether and OS Finder.

We won't know how often Garmin updates the AZT data card until they do. It's a relatively new product. Source data from ATA, which of course updates often in the meantime. It'll depend in part on what makes sense for Garmin from a business standpoint. Luckily the trail is finished now and data isn't changing as often, particularly the trail line which is most of what Garmin's product offers, apart from their own "generic" POI database.