Realistic chances to get to Bill Hall Trail April 2014

[Jozgrdn]

I just got a permit to hike the Thunder River Trail off the North Rim April 9-12 and am wondering if anyone has ever accomplished getting to the trailhead at this time of year. I talked to the folks at Jacob Lake Inn and there's no snow on the ground currently, and the ongoing western drought looks....er...promising for a trip. But I have also experienced blizzards on the South Rim in April in a wet year...Any feedback/advise? Trying to decide if the risk is worth it when spendy plane tickets are involved.

[Sredfield]

Develop a plan "B" and go for it. If you can't get to Bill Hall, hike the AZT (shameless plug) or some of the lower canyon stuff.

[toddak]

A few thoughts:

Per the park website, the average North Rim precipitation is 3.22" in Feb, 2.65" in March and 1.73" in April. Its definitely been dry this year, but I wouldn't make any bets on it staying that way for 2+ more months.

The drive into the trailhead is more than 20 miles of dirt, much of it through deeply forested and shady areas that are going to hold snow and mud.

Today I drove across the Mogollon Rim from Winslow to Payson, and there were still several inches of snow lingering in all the shaded areas above 6500', even though it's been over a month since we had a big storm. So even though there's no snow on the ground at Jacob Lake, I doubt that applies to the North Rim in general.

Will you be driving a 4WD all-terrain vehicle equipped with mud / snow tires, winch, etc?

[cactuscat]

Let us know ... I'm going in May.

[Jozgrdn]

Yep. When pressed hard GC BCO didn't sound too optimistic either. Not sure why they permitted the trip if the chances are so low. Yes, I have a friend coming with a 4wheel High clearance vehicle and a chainsaw ;) . I was also told if you go in via Freedonia toward Indian Hollow, it's lower elevation and a better chance of getting on the trail...I am thinking it makes more sense to hit Kanab Creek and Sowats Pt for a backup plan. I also looked at Nanokweap, but then I found out about the constant drone of sightseeing flights over that end of the Canyon and, well, NO WAY. This is the reason I don't like hiking most of the South Rim trails anymore. And the ones that don't have overflights, I have done way too many times. Looking for something new...How about the South Bass? Anyone done that in April....and know about access in April? BCO is willing to swap out the permit for me....

[BobP]

How about the South Bass? Anyone done that in April....and know about access in April?

I've done it 3 different times in April...I think 2009,2010 and 2013 and didn't have any problems.... but its a tough road if its rained/snowed recently.Its a 4wd road but I don't think I ever used 4wd... Lots of options/routes in that area.

[Jozgrdn]

Can it be any worse than getting to Bill Hall Trail?! I am told it's a 2.5 hour drive on only 30 some odd miles of forest service road to get to that trailhead....we'll have a high clearance vehicle.

How about the South Bass? Anyone done that in April....and know about access in April?

I've done it 3 different times in April...I think 2009,2010 and 2013 and didn't have any problems.... but its a tough road if its rained/snowed recently.Its a 4wd road but I don't think I ever used 4wd... Lots of options/routes in that area.

Could you help me with a couple of questions? (my deep and profound gratitude for your time and willingness to share!)
I am assuming since you've done three times so it must be really worth while...
but
1. Is it hard to get permitted for (especially if I wait until March to see how the weather is panning out)?
2. Planes overhead at all? The noise between Bouchard and Hermit was mind-blowing awful last time I was on that...I can't see the flight zone on the current topo for that area.
3. Is there any death ledges that go on and on like Grapevine? Would very experienced alpine scree hikers (but first time to the GC) hyperventilate on anything on this route. I have one of those joining me on this trip.

[Jozgrdn]

PS speaking of shameless plugs, JUST got me a copy of the new AZ Trail guide by Matt Nelson and the gang at Az Trail Assoc. It's very thorough!

[BobP]

I've done different hikes each time utilizing the TH....
No planes that I remember

Permits can be hard to come by if you wait last minute

Read thru some of these triplogs http://hikearizona.com/decoder=1011
Some are linked to bigger options.

[Jozgrdn]

Read thru some of these triplogs http://hikearizona.com/decoder=1011
Some are linked to bigger options.

Several reports on further afield trails/destinations (Elves Chasm, Arch) but not many specifically on the S. Bass.

I have decided to throw myself at the mercy of the weather gods and go for TR via Freedonia, FR 22 south and if we can't get it, Kanab Creek it.
Thanks all for the input!

[BobP]

but not many specifically on the S. Bass.

That's because S.Bass is a short trail and used for geting to other places. You wouldn't want to spend 3 or 4 days just hiking down South Bass and back.

[mazatzal]

Your plans sound good to me: A) Thunder River. B) Kanab Creek. Enjoy!

You originally asked if anyone had been to TR in April, here's how to check that:
http://hikearizona.com/decoder=1008
If you click triplogs there is a row of months and when each trip was done
e.g. 1 in April, 4 in November

[azbackpackr]

but not many specifically on the S. Bass.

That's because S.Bass is a short trail and used for geting to other places. You wouldn't want to spend 3 or 4 days just hiking down South Bass and back.

I love S. Bass. I could go down there and hang out for several days. When I had the permit, Oct. 2007, I posted it up on HAZ to see if anyone was interested in going, and Mary Simpson asked me if I could get a different permit, "Because the only thing down S. Bass is an old boat." (RIP, Mary!) I have to say, it turned out to be a very memorable trip. It was Squat Puke's first backpacking trip. There were some folks from Tucson on the trip I had heard of but hadn't met before. All of us have stayed friends, although very sadly Karen Swarthout has since passed away. We walked down, stashed a bunch of water on the Esplanade, and spent a couple nights on the beach, did some exploring, and the third night on the Esplanade, with a great view. The Colin Fletcher view (in one of his books).

I am currently awaiting insoles, and new Teva Sandals. I have no idea if I can ever do those hikes again, not sure what is up with my feet. I would dearly love to be able to do South Bass and the Gems.

Kayaking is fun, though!

[Jozgrdn]

Kayaking is fun! I hope to do a Hobie trip on L Powell one of these days! And you know So Bass is the only South Rim trail (and Arch and Elves), I haven't done. The way you've described it makes me think I would love it... But I am going to take a gamble and go with Thunder River in April. I'll keep you posted on how it works out.

[azbackpackr]

I'll be doing a 4 day kayaking trip on the lower Colorado in about 10 days. As for GC, have hiked most named trails off S. Rim but am "missing" a couple of sections of Tonto, including the Gems. Thunder River is great! Are you planning to do the Deer Creek loop? Not as many boaters in April, (almost no commercials river trips in April, just a few private ones) so if you can get to Deer Creek Falls, it shouldn't be too crowded.

[Jozgrdn]

Wow didn't know you could do such a thing...four days...isn't it hard to get permited for that short of time? Yes doing the Deer Creek loop for sure! My dream is to a 21-day river trip with a focus on hiking the side canyons...haven't been able to hook up with anyone doing it though and I do not want to sign up for a trip with a commercial outfitter. Private party would be more my style. I can't handle complainers and whiners—two of my friends who have done several commercial runs on the Colorado (as helpers) come back with horrendous stories and harboring guilt about their fantasies of dumping the bodies).

[azbackpackr]

Ha, that's funny...Yes, I have seen some people lose their cool for sure, on private trips. I've been on a couple of them, 2011 and 2012, had my own permit 2012. Guide school in 2011, never worked as a guide--I'm pretty old to get started with that--it is very hard work. Will put in this year's lottery for 2015, too, for another private permit. It is open right now.

You can boat ALL of the Lower Colorado with no permit, from upper Lake Mead (near the bottom end of Grand Canyon) to below Yuma, over 450 miles of lakes and river with current (with about 7 dams to get around). Black Canyon below Hoover Dam requires a permit only if launching from the dam, but you can paddle upstream from Willow Beach if you want to avoid the permit. Our trip next week is from Walter's Camp to Squaw Lake. Here's a map, but this is only about 75 miles of Lower Colorado. It does include the section we are doing: http://www.dbw.ca.gov/Pubs/BlythetoImpe ... perial.pdf Last week we paddled Laguna Dam to Yuma, a day trip of about 12 miles. There are no rapids. I use a sea kayak. The event I organized last week: http://hikearizona.com/photoset=28612 and http://hikearizona.com/photoset=28613

[Jozgrdn]

Thank you! I may get in touch with you next year for a trip! Starting to look very good for a trip to North Rim in April. Jacob Lake Inn says they have zero snow, and yesterday it as 65 there. Yes, snow storm could still hit, but they told me that without hard snowpack already there, it would melt quickly...likely. I am thinking positive!

Ha, that's funny...Yes, I have seen some people lose their cool for sure, on private trips. I've been on a couple of them, 2011 and 2012, had my own permit 2012. Guide school in 2011, never worked as a guide--I'm pretty old to get started with that--it is very hard work. Will put in this year's lottery for 2015, too, for another private permit. It is open right now.

You can boat ALL of the Lower Colorado with no permit, from upper Lake Mead (near the bottom end of Grand Canyon) to below Yuma, over 450 miles of lakes and river with current (with about 7 dams to get around). Black Canyon below Hoover Dam requires a permit only if launching from the dam, but you can paddle upstream from Willow Beach if you want to avoid the permit. Our trip next week is from Walter's Camp to Squaw Lake. Here's a map, but this is only about 75 miles of Lower Colorado. It does include the section we are doing: http://www.dbw.ca.gov/Pubs/BlythetoImpe ... perial.pdf Last week we paddled Laguna Dam to Yuma, a day trip of about 12 miles. There are no rapids. I use a sea kayak. The event I organized last week: http://hikearizona.com/photoset=28612 and http://hikearizona.com/photoset=28613

[azbackpackr]

I just returned home after kayaking 42 miles from Walter's Camp CA, to Squaw Lake, CA, which is just above Imperial Dam. It was a fun trip. Not like Grand Canyon, but fun anyway. Camped at the put-in and two more times along the river, at Carrizo Wash (a part of Picacho) and at Ferguson Lake. All camps seem to be on CA side on that stretch.

[azbackpackr]

@Jozgrdn
Here's my triplog, GPS route and photos: http://hikearizona.com/photoset=28888