Bad Directions to Horseshoe Mesa - Backpacker Magazine

[Canyonram]

The October 2010 edition of Backpacker Magazine has a one-and-half page article on dayhiking down Grandview Trail and doing the loop around Horseshoe Mesa. The article has several dangeous mistakes that can get someone in deep trouble. Here's the message I sent to the editors:

The Oct. 2010 Grandview Loop Hike article has several mistakes. (1)A photo taken from the Western Arm of Horsehoe Mesa is incorrectly labeled. I believe this is a photo of Vishnu Temple, not Zoroaster. Big problem if one attempts to orient to Zoroaster and not Vishnu.

(2)One gallon per person per day is not enough for the Grandview, even in cool weather.

3)You do not pass the cookhouse to get to the East Horseshoe Mesa Trail---you turn after going past the mine opening. If you go down to the cook house you have missed the turn off and will have to double back to the south to connect with the East Horseshoe Mesa Trail. If you head east at the cookhouse, you will go past the designated campsites and toilet and then stumble around looking for the trail down. If you go west at the cookhouse you will drop off Horseshoe Mesa and may or may not find water in Cottonwood Creek.

Please correct this mistake---someone down with minimal water and trying to re-supply at Miner's Spring will be left high-and-dry.

Doing the loop off Grandview can be dangerous--hikers have missed the return trail and instead head out across the Tonto---and run out of water. Last summer, a day hiker did die after he went down and headed across the Tonto Plateau.

Has anyone else read or seen this article in Backpacker?

[nonot]

I received the requested info from the NPS on the death of hiker Andrew Brunelli in Sept. 2009. There was no indication as to which way he way he was traveling. The final report assumes he went down Grandview Trail and headed out across the Tonto in order to connect with the South Kaibab. When he was found, he had a daypack with 2 empty quarts bottles for water and 2 empty quart bottles for sports drink---a gallon to travel app. 30 miles in the Inner Canyon Sept. heat at 100+ degrees. (The 'one gallon' is the same recommendaiton in the Backpacker Magazine article of Oct. 2010.)

He had left no hiking plan of his proposed route. The NPS did not expand the search until they were contacted and informed by a friend that he was going to do a more extensive hike than just down the Grandview. By this time, it was too late. By the time he was reported missing, he was probably already deceased. In his motel room were some books on hiking Grand Canyon.

My guess is that he dropped off Horseshoe Mesa and was attempting the loop around the Mesa and back up. I have taken dayhikers around this same loop when we didn't have time for an overnighter. I assume he missed his turn on the Tonto that would have taken him back up to Horseshoe Mesa. As maxpower pointed out, the signage is pretty bad. Instead, he continued to the West on the Tonto. Given that he had some hiking books on the Canyon at his hotel room, I can't imagine that he didn't understand the necessity for a lot of water. The easier guess is that he simply got turned around and lost on the Tonto and just kept hiking.

Over the years I have done this hike across the Tonto. I'd always do a dayhike down the South Kaibab and cache water onto the Tonto, the same down Grandview. We're talking gallons, not quart bottles. I've seen Cottonwood Creek flowing like a river and also dry as dust.

Whatever his mistake and however you want to assign responsibility, may he rest in peace.


'

You can't prevent people from doing things which are dangerous. Your assertions that the signage is bad at Cottonwood is false, based on my experiences 3-4 months prior to his death. The decision to take 1 gallon of water to hike 30 miles in 100 degree heat is a poor one. As I understand it, he is not doing the route Backpacker suggests, he tried to do a greatly extended loop. He was also doing it at a time the magazine doesn't recommend. Miner's spring is on the opposite side of the Mesa from the Tonto going to South Kaibob. You are only guessing at his intents, your assertions that he was following the Backpacker trip are unfounded. Even if he did go that way, your assertions he did not find Miner's Spring are also unfounded.

I could easily guess that he went straight down Grandview, down Cottonwood, and onto the Tonto, where he died of heat exhaustion due to southern exposure. I will also guess that he read the park service bulletin about the trail and thus I will place the entire blame on the park service, because this is obviously their fault for neglecting to mention there is not a water fountain every 3 miles along the Tonto.

This is ridiculous.

[Canyonram]

(1) You can prevent people from doing dangerous things by not providing them with incorrect information under the guise that it is safe.
(2) Do you have the NPS report on Andrew Brunelli? It took me about two months of repeated requests before the NPS public relations officer sent me the report. If you have the report, I'd appreciate if you would tell me how you were able to obtain a copy so quickly. If you do not have the report, would you agree it is ridiculous to comment on something you haven't read?
(3) I have repeated several times in previous posts that Andrew Brunelli's misguided hike was before the Backpacker article. Did you miss this in my initial posts? I never made the assertion that he followed the exact Backpacker trail route. I never asserted as fact that he missed Miner's Spring. You are missing a lot of the signs on this trail.
(4) I stated that I was offering my guess as to what happened to this hiker. I did not 'assert' anything as the way it happened. Do you understand the difference between someone offering a guess and trying to understand an event as compared to making an assertion that it happened in a certain way? Your guess that he may have gone down to Horseshoe Mesa, down along Cottonwood Creek and then along the Tonto is a possibility. That's not much different from what I suggested. I'm not offended by your information nor by your guess.
(5) What is ridiculous about trying to understand fatal errors that occur to hikers? Trying to understand why these deaths and injuries occur provides the basis for prevention. It is also the basis for not making the same mistake that doomed someone else. In previous comments, people have chimed in that no one should do a hike based on a single bit of information---I thought it was interesting that he had books on hiking Grand Canyon left behind in his hotel room. My GUESS is that he had read up on Grandview---if that is the case, what error did he make that lead to his death from heat/dehydration?
(6) If you think this thread and my interest in both Andrew Brunelli and the Backpacker article is ridiculous, by all means find something better to do with your time than waste it by posting a reply. It will save my time in both reading your reply and authoring a response.

[PaleoRob]

Why do we keep talking about Andrew Brunelli if he has nothing to do with this. He wasn't killed by Backpacker (or anything published in Backpacker) - why does he keep coming up?

[joebartels]

Well they should correct mistakes pointed out such as the photo. Perhaps others, I haven't hiked it so I can't say. They should certainly respond at the very minimum. The water situation seems debatable to me. Personally I would have left Brunelli out of the context completely.

[Davis2001r6]

It sounds as if Andrew Brunelli died trying to do the same loop that Margaret Bradley died doing in July 2004. Some people just don't understand mileage or heat in the Grand Canyon. I've done that 27 mile loop in 2 days, but in December. It would be a suicide attempt to try it in the summer. Every sign, brochure, online guide I have ever read talks about the heat of the canyon.

[Canyonram]

(Pagerob)I brought the Andrew Brunelli death into the conversation as an example of what can go wrong while hiking in that part of the Canyon. I'm not sure if he was attempting a loop hike or if he just made a mistake in his directions and ended up way out on the Tonto as a result. Because there is so much info out there regarding water needs in the Canyon---and Andrew Brunelli had some of the Canyon hiking book literature in his hotel room---why did he end up where he did with so little water in a daypack? If he had the water information, did he then make a relatively simple navigation error? This is the connection I see with the Backpacker article---bad information that leads to a navigation error that can get someone in trouble in the same manner that resulted in Andrew Brunelli's death a year before.

And yes, the marathon runner Margaret Bradley died attempting the loop from Grandview to S. Kaibab. She apparently miscalculated the distance for the loop and carried insufficent water as a result. http://www.nps.gov/archive/grca/media/2004/14jul04.htm

I'm interested in the topic of "Lost Person Behavior' and the Search and Rescue Techniques necessary (see the text by Robert Koester). Part of the subject matter requires understanding human behavior and why people do what they do to get themselves lost and in need of rescue. This science looks for connections and the rationale behind different lost person events and categorizes how people behave when lost.

One answer is that people are basically idiots and they get lost and deserve their fate. For those who believe this is the case, the topic of 'Lost Person Behavior' is closed---let the idiots die out on the trail. If this is your philosophy, you will probably be bored silly by my motivation to examine the subject. Another answer is to figure out what goes wrong and how to educate and provide preventative advice---that is my approach. It is also one that gets labeled ridiculous by some.

[Canyonram]

In Robert Koester’s book “Lost Person Behavior” he reviews the International Search & Rescue Incident Database for 3,837 hikers. At the time of his 2008 release, the NPS was not part of the database due to a difference in the way data is collected and analyzed (hopefully this will change in the future since NPS could certainly contribute!).

‘Hikers’ are 1 of the 34 categories. Here’s some conclusions drawn from an abbreviated version of the ‘Lost Hiker’ profile (pg. 183):

Hikers are oriented to trails. . . errors typically occur at decision points (trail junctions, obscure trails, game trails, social trails, head of drainages). Other common errors include heading the wrong direction down a trail . . . errors at decision points account for 56% of lost cases. Errors can be active (standing at a trail junction and making the wrong decision after reading the map upside down) or passive (not even noticing they left the trail). Hikers are guided by terrain to other linear features once they are lost. Many follow the path of least resistance. Poor navigators fail to notice landmarks while good navigators make a point of noticing landmarks (both local and distant). Youths and some young adults will also cut switchbacks. This often results in missing the trail. It may result in the subject moving uphill, even up and over a ridge line. Among hikers, 32-42% will be found uphill in relation to the IPP (Initial Planning Point for the searchers). A recent phenomenon is lost subjects moving uphill or leaving trails to move uphill in order to obtain cell phone coverage. Many attempt to reorient themselves by trail running or finding a high spot. Hikers in dry domains stay mobile twice as long as in temperate domains . . . also more likely to travel cross-country. . . around a third will travel at night. Being overdue accounts for 16% of search incidents . . . hikers are often delayed because of poor estimates of fitness/travel time, lack of light, and blisters, especially if carrying heavy packs . . . many discard equipment when lost or in trouble. Many lack skills for remote areas.”

Extending this data to the BackPacker article on Grandview at Grand Canyon - - - the article includes as basic instruction several of the errors that get hikers lost in the first place - - - (1) Wrong directions, (2) Misidentification of Inner Canyon landmarks with Vishnu Temple identified as Zoraster, an Inner Canyon landmark miles to the west, (3) No indication that there are trail signs marking the loop route and decision points. In addition, water requirements are not sufficient and the time of year to hike is wrong and sends hikers down when the Inner Canyon is still an oven.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. LOL.

[nonot]

Misidentified Vishnu as Zoraster? Hell, I couldn't pick out one from the other. You have to have an intimate knowledge of an area by visiting it a half dozen times before you can do much except name the most obvious landmarks.

Doing grandview going down it is obvious that big horseshoe thing you descend onto is horseshoe mesa. Dropping on the tonto you know that big hulking thing you came down to your south and are going around is horseshoe mesa. Hance Creek and cottonwood are, you know, those huge canyons you get to that intersect the Tonto trail on either side.

You are claiming he was trying to identify whether he was at cottonwood by looking for Vishnu and hell, Angel's Gate, across the canyon and trying to determine his relative position relative to landmarks he was likely unfamiliar with....uh...sure, go with that ;)

[GrottoGirl]

We did a 4 day backpack over Thanksgiving. We took the Grandview trail to Horseshoe Mesa. We drank water from Miner's (Page) Spring and we're still alive. The spring is only about a half mile from the campsites on the Mesa. A very steep half mile down the trail marked for Page Spring (You do not need to take the Tonto trail to get to it.) After leaving the Mesa we went down Cottonwood and were able to get water there. The creek was flowing but we also were able to find the spring - easy if you download all the tracklogs from this website and know how to use a GPS/map. On the tracklog, you can see a side track that goes to the spring. Our second night we stayed at Hance Creek - it was also flowing at the time. The third night was at the Colorado - it was not too silty. We left the Canyon via the New Hance Trail. I plan to post a triplog and my tracklog. I just have to figure out which of the trails it's most appropriate to post it under since we took 4 different trails (Grandview, Cottonwood, Tonto, and New Hance). Any recommendations would be accepted

[PaleoRob]

Proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

[nonot]

@bknorby:

Post under the first trail (Grandview) and link the rest (upper left portion of triplog).

[imike]

Proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

proper prior planning potentially prevents piss poor performance, previously proven...

[Canyonram]

Hello nonot:

Nonot wrote "You are claiming he was trying to identify whether he was at cottonwood by looking for Vishnu and hell, Angel's Gate, across the canyon and trying to determine his relative position relative to landmarks he was likely unfamiliar with....uh...sure, go with that."

Sorry, I didn't claim anything about anyone in my comments posted on Dec. 10. Who is the 'he' in your comment? Who is looking for hell? (If you go out on the Tonto in early September you will find it, no map needed).

Do you or do you not believe that the data I provided from Robert Koester's book 'Lost Person Behavior' is valid?

For bknorby--Good report on the conditions down Grandview and back up New Hance for this time of year. Since the hike is fresh in your mind I'm curious if you see any problems with the Backpacker article for Grandview. I notice you found the signage advertising 'Page Spring' --- the article directs you to Miner's Spring. Also, did NPS have you use the human waste bags to transport your stuff out of the Canyon after spending the night at the Colorado???

[nonot]

Do you or do you not believe that the data I provided from Robert Koester's book 'Lost Person Behavior' is valid?

I do not have any issues with the book material.

[azbackpackr]

Also, did NPS have you use the human waste bags to transport your stuff out of the Canyon after spending the night at the Colorado???

WHAT????? To my knowledge, wag bags are not going to be required until January 2012, and this is being challenged and fought by a lot of backcountry hikers. Please correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know, wag bags are not yet required anywhere in the Canyon.

[Canyonram]

The pilot program to test Wag Bag use was initiated in Feb. 2010 with an invitation sent out to those who were spending the night at Hance Rapids/BD9 Red Canyon to participate in the test. I'm not sure if this is at the level or a 'requirement' since it was advertised as a pilot program. I guess they no longer want hikers to pile it along the River. The details on the Wag Bag program is here along with the letter sent out to hikers going into Hance Rapids:

http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/waste-mgmt.htm

NPS is attempting to restore the beach to natural vegetation and hikers were digging their catholes in the same area as the re-vegetation efforts. There's really no place for the human waste in this area----hikers were complaining about the smell, toilet paper roses, solid wastes, etc. Going to be fun to carry your stuff out of the Canyon when it gets hot. Also, a lot of people spend their first night or second night at Hance Rapids and hike out by connecting with Grandview. If you do this route you'll end up carrying your Wag Bag for a day or two. Make sure you pull the right bag from your pack when you go for your GORP.

Because the hiker traffic is so high, the disposal of human waste throughout the Canyon is becoming a problem. The same campsites get used over-and-over and concentrate the wastes in a given area. I imagine there will come a time when other high-use sites and routes will require Wag Bags. Another topic to discuss!

[azbackpackr]

Like I just said, wag bags will be required starting January 2012. I posted this in another thread entitled Wag Bags in the Canyon? or something along those lines. I have a friend who works for the Park, so I hear the news before it is released. It is likely to be pretty controversial once it is known. And, they may change their minds and just require the bags in certain areas. This would make more sense, in my opinion.

I have hiked New Hance-Tonto-Grandview.

Good to learn about the pilot project. One worry in making it permanent is that lazy hikers may deposit the wag bag into the first composting toilet they run across. This of course would really mess up those toilets.

I have carried a wag bag only one time, in the Mt. Whitney, CA, area. I had to carry the bag-full only one day. I had to carry the empty bag for a week, though, until I got to the area where it needed to be used. It was ok for the short term, but as you said, might be problematic over a longer trip. I suspect that serious off-trail backpackers in the Canyon will take the bags with them, and then just not comply with their use. However, at Hance Rapids, at the bottom of Red Canyon, as you say, a very good idea, I think. I can see where that dune area would get just really nasty.

[Canyonram]

Good to learn about the pilot project. One worry in making it permanent is that lazy hikers may deposit the wag bag into the first composting toilet they run across. This of course would really mess up those toilets.

When I got the invitation to use the Wag Bag on a planned hike to Hance, I contacted Mark Wunner at the Backcountry Office and asked him the same thing. Apparently the waste collection barrels/containers are at the trailhead at New Hance. A popular hike is to go down New Hance and cross over to Horshoe Mesa and up the Grandview. More convenient to park at Grandview trailhead and hitch a ride or call a taxi over to New Hance. This has you exiting at Grandview and unless you put in a long day, spending a night on Horseshoe Mesa. I asked Mark if hikers were going to get rid of their Wag Bags at the privvy toilets on Horseshoe Mesa and he had hopes that they would not do this but complete the carry-out. At the time, there was no plan on having collection containers at Grandview. Wonder how many Wag Bags end up in the porta-potties at Grandview---there's a sure way to clog up the collection hoses on the septic pumper trucks.

The small sand dune area IS nasty. Rafting companies blame the hikers for the human waste and the hikers blame the rafters. If you look at the overhead photos of the beach, you can appreciate how small an area is there for human waste burial should one maintain the recommended 200 foot distance between burial and water/creek/river.

Longer treks may require something like a 'poop tube' to carry wastes. Trailspace has a good summary of all things poop and pee: http://www.trailspace.com/articles/back ... posal.html

I can't imagine carrying a few days worth of stuff in a Wag Bag dangling off the side of my pack. Heat will cook the stuff and I can picture wag bags and poop tubes exploding. "Hiker killed on trail, found covered in human waste. NPS suspects hikers were arguing over trail directions. Backpacker magazine article found in the pile of used toilet paper."

[te_wa]

Backpacker magazine article found in the pile of used toilet paper

thats a good place for it

[maxpower]

Backpacker magazine article found in the pile of used toilet paper."

Hopefully any staples were removed before use.