Union wants to close some trails because "ermagherd so warm"

[Thoreau]

Meeting is tomorrow, July 13th...

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 945916002/

"The Phoenix fire union is asking the city’s Parks and Recreation board to consider closing several challenging Valley trails on days with an excessive heat watch.

During a public meeting on Tuesday, members of the United Phoenix Firefighters Association will request restrictions to three trailheads at Camelback Mountain and Piestewa Peak when outside temperatures reach 105 degrees."

Some of my best times on those trails were very much above 105 degrees. It's the only time the crowds thin out enough to get a good pace going.

[Thoreau]

[Thoreau]

[Thoreau]

now a year round policy, with no dissenting votes.

[hikeaz]

Whenever you are taking from Peter to benefit Paul, you can always depend on the support of Paul.

[Jim]

And I bet we're all happy Nanny government is keeping us safe from ourselves!

[AZHiker456]

Speaking to the FACTS pertaining to my own situation: having hiked 1,000's of miles and taken 100's of trips in the wilderness, ultra day hike style, I've had my close calls with a variety of elements, weather included. However, (in terms of close calls / REAL scares pertaining to the weather) - i.e. the ONLY times I've half wondered if I'd make it back alive due to weather-related circumstances - were due to COLD... and to this day, I get shivers thinking about some of those CLOSE CALLS!

[LindaAnn]

Give an inch, they’ll take a mile…

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoen ... treme-heat

[FOTG]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topst ... XBYC?ocid=

And so it begins....

In an effort to keep rescue crews, hikers and pets safe, the fire department is proposing Phoenix Parks and Recreation make adjustments. “Pets are not going to be allowed on the trails past 90 degrees, the closures will happen year-round, and the time period will be pushed to 9 a.m. to 5 p.m.,”

If these changes are made after that meeting on Aug. 31, it will go into effect immediately.

[LindaAnn]

@FOTG
Knew it. Oh, it’s warm out, sit at home, eat some processed food, and don’t move, it’s for your own good. They won’t stop there either…

[chumley]

I'm sure there are meta-analyses that draw a comprehensive picture of injuries, rescues, costs, temperature, time of day, etc. blah blah blah showing that the two currently restricted trails are infinitely safer than those without restrictions, which clearly justifies the expansion of this policy, amirite? I'm right. I'm absolutely sure I'm right about this.

[ShatteredArm]

@FOTG
This is probably a reaction to that guy whose dogs died a few weeks ago, right? My understanding is he's being charged with animal neglect over it.

I get the whole "protect the animals" sentiment, but I wouldn't mind seeing if, now that they've made an example out of him, the threat of misdemeanor charges serves as an adequate deterrent in the future.

That being said... People generally shouldn't be taking their dogs for hikes when it's hot out, they're not built for heat the way we are.

[DixieFlyer]

@FOTG
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 734171007/

The Phoenix Parks and Recreation Board voted on Thursday to expand the city’s heat safety trail program, which requires popular trails to close on days deemed dangerously hot by the National Weather Service.

The trail closures will now take effect from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. year-round during extreme heat days, restricting access to Camelback Mountain at Echo Canyon, Cholla Trails and Piestewa Peak Trails.

The approved changes were to take effect immediately, according to the city.

"Ensuring the health, safety, and well-being of our hikers and first responders while accessing our trails is our top priority," said Kelly Dalton, chair of the Phoenix Parks and Recreation Board. "The action we took tonight is another important step in protecting individuals from the devastating effects that can result from hiking in extreme heat."

The safety trail program previously ran from May through October and only from 11 a.m. to 5 p.m.

[Thoreau]

As usual, the expansion of overreach and nanny state bs continues, exactly as predicted.

https://www.phoenix.gov/newsroom/parks- ... ation/3256

Phoenix Parks Board Approves Expansion of Trail Closure Program to South Mountain and Implements Earlier Trail Closures
October 25, 2024 8:00 AM
On Thursday evening, the City of Phoenix Parks Board voted in favor of expanding the Phoenix Trails and Heat Safety Program to include all trails at South Mountain Park and Preserve and to implement trail closures beginning at 8 a.m., rather than the previous time of 9 a.m. Effective immediately, these proactive measures will ensure the safety of trail users and first responders during extreme weather conditions, particularly during the summer months.

Currently, the Phoenix Trails and Heat Safety Program encompasses the Echo Canyon and Cholla Trails at Camelback Mountain, as well as the Piestewa Peak Summit Trail and associated trails at the Phoenix Mountains Preserve. These trails are closed when an Excessive Heat Warning is issued by the National Weather Service (NWS). By expanding the program to include South Mountain Park and Preserve, the City will enhance safety measures, ensuring that both trail users and first responders are protected from heat-related risks similar to those present at Camelback Mountain and Phoenix Mountains Preserve.

"I am proud of the decision we made this evening after careful consideration of key data from our Parks and Fire Departments, as well as valuable input from the public. Our Board’s decision to expand the Phoenix Trails and Heat Safety Program to South Mountain Park/Preserve, along with earlier trail closures during excessive heat warnings, is a proactive measure to reduce heat-related incidents," said Kelly Dalton, Chair of the City of Phoenix Parks Board. "The safety of our residents and visitors is always our top priority, and this decision underscores our commitment to ensuring Phoenix’s trails remain safe and accessible. We will continue to assess and strengthen these measures as needed to protect our community."

In 2024, Phoenix experienced 45 days of trail closures due to extreme heat between May 1 and October 13, with a total of 121 days reaching temperatures of 105°F or higher. Notably, 69 of those days exceeded 110°F. This extreme heat not only raises the risk of heat-related incidents but also poses significant challenges for first responders during mountain rescues.

Despite these conditions, the Phoenix Trails and Heat Safety Program has been effective in managing outdoor activities during the hottest months, as affirmed by the decrease in rescues on closed trails from 2021 to 2024:

• 2021: 57 rescues
• 2022: 47 rescues
• 2023: 30 rescues
• 2024: 35 rescues

“We are committed to proactively collaborating with the parks department to ensure the safety of our residents and firefighters during extreme heat events. By expanding this program with data driven decisions, the City of Phoenix can enhance trail safety and reduce risks for everyone enjoying our beautiful parks," Executive Assistant Phoenix Fire Chief, Tim Kreis.

In addition to approving the expansion of the Phoenix Trails and Heat Safety Program and adjusting trail closure hours to 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., the Parks Board has directed Parks and Recreation staff to present further recommendations to the Board in January 2025. Proposed changes include moving the closure time to 7 a.m. and adjusting the trail closure threshold to activate when daily temperatures are forecast to exceed 105°F, rather than waiting for Excessive Heat Warnings from the NWS.

The Parks and Recreation Department recognizes the significant impact of the proposed changes and will launch a community engagement campaign to inform the public and gather feedback. In the meantime, residents are encouraged to stay informed about trail closures and safety recommendations through the City of Phoenix Parks and Recreation Department's website​ and social media channels.

[Jim]

I no longer live in Phoenix and haven't since before this closure policy, and I pretty much stopped hiking challenging things like Sombrero in temps much over 100, so I'm in little danger of this policy effecting me.

However, is anyone aware of hikers or violators being arrested or fined for hiking while trails are closed? Is there any enforcement, if say you were someone who regularly did Piestewa at Noon 3 days a week and continued to do so all summer even in 115, and just ignored this and have continued to hike all summer?

[chumley]

Give an inch, they’ll take a mile…

after careful consideration of key data

The conclusions drawn on key data are apparently unaware of the scientific query of causation or correlation.
For what it's worth, each day of implemented closures is proposed to increase effective hours by 25%. The proposal to change the threshold to 105 degrees would have had an effect of increasing the closure days in 2024 from 45 to 121 -- an increase of 269% and would mean that the public lands administered by the Phoenix Parks and Recreation Dept would restrict public use for a whopping 40% of the year.

Is it enforceable? On South Mountain, most likely not. But it will be made to be less convenient for the residents to use their public land without conflicts.

I fear this will take someone with deep pockets to bring it to the courts before the city is forced to back down.

[LindaAnn]

@chumley
I’d like to see their budgets cut by a corresponding percentage.

[Thoreau]

I just love how the article tries to lick the boots with some 'stats' on the 'omg yay declining numbers of rescues!'. Zero context though. The ratio of hiker-miles to rescues might be identical simply based on the reduction of miles hiked due to pooey hours/closures. The rescues that still happened could very well have all still been during those closed hours for all we know, but that data isn't given. The rescue numbers may be inline just in geeral based on years with similar temperature ranges even prior to the closures (despite governments insistence that it is big daddy and knows best for us all, people are quite capable of self-regulating their own choices and deciding it's too hot for their particular fitness/conditioning/desire.)

Really no different from the absolute lack of data the union gave the council during the initial meetings, and the council continues to put zero effort into pushing back or demanding meaningful data.

I guess our only saving grace is that the idiocy of the Phoenix City Council doesn't have power beyond those city limits.

[Thoreau]

I'm not generally one to actively engage in things like petitions, but given the already apparent short history of this trainwreck, who knows, maybe it'll have some effect?

https://www.change.org/p/keep-phoenix-t ... e-closures

[LindaAnn]

@Thoreau
But you know surrounding cities and county parks are looking at these closures and figuring out how to implement similar restrictions. They’ll keep chipping away at it.

[Thoreau]

@LindaAnn
Oh I'm sure some are already chomping at the bit. =(