VV Trail Sign

mttgilbert · Post by **mttgilbert** » Aug 01 2008 6:52 am

We found this trail sign while hiking in East Clear Creek:

There was an old road near it and some signs of campsites around it but it was in a fairly inaccessible location. Trail 108 is the West Fork of Oak Creek Trail, and "V V" is a ranch somewhere here in Arizona but I don't know where. This was the only sign we found in the canyon and there were no blazes to further define the trail. Any ideas?

HAZ VV Map

chumley · Post by **chumley** » Jul 20 2015 8:53 pm

I created a label to keep them together. While there are currently 7 photos, I believe there are only 5 unique signs currently identified.

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Jul 20 2015 9:01 pm

My current best guess is an obsolete OHV or snowmobile trail sign. I'm more interested now in how long it will be before somebody breaks down and asks the USFS.

chumley · Post by **chumley** » Jul 20 2015 9:11 pm

@big_load
Well Outdoor Lover has already asked, and Tough_boots has too. Getting the correct answer has so far proven elusive.

BTW I don't think your old OHV sign theory makes sense. There are no roads on the old travel management map (the one that inventoried all the roads so they could determine which to close and which to keep open) near the signs we have identified -- and I don't think OHV was even a thing when these signs were put up!

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Jul 20 2015 9:31 pm

@chumley Well, not OHV in the modern sense, but more like dirt bikes. If the USFS doesn't know what they are, I wonder what would happen if you asked to remove them.

wha · Post by **wha** » Jul 20 2015 9:46 pm

chumley wrote:Quick search shows that VVH is a surveying acronym for "Verified Vertical Horizontal". I don't see any surveying use of "Verfied Vertical" alone however.

VV = Verified Vertical Elevation
VVH = Verified Vertical Elevation and Horizontal Location

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Jul 21 2015 5:40 am

Did anyone ask the USGS?

The_Eagle · Post by **The_Eagle** » Jul 21 2015 8:24 am

Geocoded map updated to show all 5 -> http://hikearizona.com/map.php?MY=14051&M=6

chumley · Post by **chumley** » Jul 21 2015 10:29 am

big_load wrote:Did anyone ask the USGS?

I sent an email to bho@whitehouse.gov
I'll let you know when I get a response.
Oh hold on, there's somebody knocking at the door...

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Jul 21 2015 10:39 am

You should have used someone else's computer.

I can't find any sort of signage associated with that particular surveying terminology. However, the terms themselves seem to appear frequently with regard to buried utilities in reports.

outdoor_lover · Post by **outdoor_lover** » Jul 21 2015 11:59 am

Hank posted 1 in Bear, but I think there were at least two down there. I got Photos of them also and there was some discussion then. I think Hank even emailed the Forest Service about them and never got a Reply? ( I would Paste the Link but I don't know how with my "Pimp Phone") (bartel label lol)

Grasshopper · Post by **Grasshopper** » Jul 21 2015 3:56 pm

@Outdoor Lover Yes & I re-posted your 6/23/12 sign pic here--> http://hikearizona.com/photo.php?ID=509788

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Jul 21 2015 7:45 pm

I think the numbers on the signs are interesting. They're too low to represent measurements of any precision. They must be indices that refer to data held elsewhere (as a road number for example).

Alston_Neal · Post by **Alston_Neal** » Jul 22 2015 10:40 am

I think the bigger mystery is why Chums hasn't hijacked this thread in 7 years...JK
I've seen these signs also but never gave them much thought till now. Their construction shows them to not be considered temporary, or some Government funded project. They appear to be from the late 50's 60's and could coincide with the time of heavy logging up there.

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Jul 17 2016 4:32 pm

chumley wrote:I'll let you know when I get a response.

never happened eh

The_Eagle · Post by **The_Eagle** » Jul 17 2016 5:25 pm

The one we recorded yesterday, is the most northern one so far.

I've updated the locations on the master.

http://hikearizona.com/map.php?MY=14051&M=6

One of these days.....

rcorfman · Post by **rcorfman** » Jul 17 2016 9:27 pm

So I take it this one isn't on the list? I think it's a couple hundred feet upstream from where the U-Bar trail crosses Barbershop Canyon.

The_Eagle · Post by **The_Eagle** » Jul 17 2016 9:51 pm

@rcorfman
Here? http://hikearizona.com/map.php?MY=14051&M=6
Yellow Flag

rcorfman · Post by **rcorfman** » Jul 18 2016 9:01 am

@The_Eagle
No, closer to 34.493167 -111.164617. It was downstream a short distance from a geocache at those coordinates. I don't remember how far away, probably less than 50'. That's not my picture either, it was posted by another finder of the geocache. Part of the hint for the geocache is, "When you reach VV72, you are getting close!"

chumley · Post by **chumley** » Jul 18 2016 10:03 am

Map and label are updated with rcorfman's VV 72. I also added the photo to one of my photosets just so it's got a PID on site somewhere.

I included another triangle on the rim posted by Kingsnake a year ago. It doesn't have a VV and may be unrelated. But just for reference and the potential link, I included it.

And technically the one at Kinder Crossing is also unidentified as to whether there is a VV or not.

As far as I can tell, there is only one sign we have found that has both up and down triangles, with a VVH on bottom and a VV on top.

The mystery continues...

http://hikearizona.com/map.php?MY=21909&M=6

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Jul 18 2016 1:03 pm

Do they mark where the aliens laid their eggs?

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