State Parks

Tortoise_Hiker · Post by **Tortoise_Hiker** » Feb 01 2009 6:32 am

"Say it aint so Joe" Is it true that the State budget cuts include closing FIVE State Parks?

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Feb 01 2009 4:19 pm

It'll be a nightmare either way. If they leave it open it'll be party central and trashed beyond belief. If they lock it, the same will happen unless somebody is there to guard the gate.

Jeffshadows · Post by **Jeffshadows** » Feb 01 2009 4:20 pm

joe bartels wrote:It'll be a nightmare either way. If they leave it open it'll be party central and trashed beyond belief. If they lock it, the same will happen unless somebody is there to guard the gate.

Yup.

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Feb 01 2009 4:29 pm

Since I once had to crawl on my belly to avoid gunfire in LDSP, I have particularly strong feelings about the prospect of reduced state support.

azdesertfather · Post by **azdesertfather** » Feb 01 2009 4:34 pm

rally_toad wrote:Hey you might as well. We're gonna be out there for 4 days and we're only clearing 1.5 miles of trail. So you should have plenty of free time.

is that all?

SuperstitionGuy · Post by **SuperstitionGuy** » Feb 01 2009 4:55 pm

I doubt that most volunteers for the catclaw Revenge project will be able to do the full four days. Just backpacking in and out of Angel Basin is going to consume some potential work time. I am hoping that we can actually fully cut back the trail between Tortilla Pass and Angel Basin. It is not easy work and will take some time. Plus we don't want to have to work 8 to 10 hours a day to do it. I am probably only good for 4 to 5 hours a day. At 68 years old I can still walk all day but to bend, kneel, cut, throw or drag the cut catclaw off the trail will be hard work.

But back to the State Parks, lets hope Lost Dutchman is not affected. It is heavily used and is a great entryway to the Wilderness.

rushthezeppelin · Post by **rushthezeppelin** » Feb 02 2009 8:36 am

SuperstitionGuy wrote:But back to the State Parks, lets hope Lost Dutchman is not affected. It is heavily used and is a great entryway to the Wilderness.

That and having to do Flat Iron from Jacob's Crosscut wouldn't be too fun......imagine that parking lot filling up like camelback ><

Jeffshadows · Post by **Jeffshadows** » Feb 02 2009 8:43 am

I wish they would just raise property taxes, already. Oh no...I would have to pay a whopping $14 a year instead of $7.

They would double their income from that, their largest, revenue source. Know who fights hard as heck to prevent that from ever happening? Developers and slumlords who rent to a gazillion college students. They would finally pay their fair share. Instead we close parks, hose universities, and who knows what's next...

writelots · Post by **writelots** » Feb 02 2009 12:35 pm

Jeff MacE wrote:I wish they would just raise property taxes, already. Oh no...I would have to pay a whopping $14 a year instead of $7.

Wow - an Arizonan advocating an increase in property tax? What will we see next - a Republican from Vermont?

Seriously - more than just slumlords and nere-do-wells - you'll see ranchers, miners and retirees objecting to that. Not that I personally find it wrong - especially considering the shape our economy is in. At least it's a tax base that wouldn't disappear the next time there's a dip in the development market...Somebody's got to own the land. But, there are a lot of disadvantages, too...especially for those on fixed incomes or those who already have high local property taxes...

dysfunction · Post by **dysfunction** » Feb 02 2009 12:47 pm

The reality is that taxes will have to be increased, not just at a state level but also at a federal level. Or, we'll have to drop many state and federal programs, which will in the end simply make the economy worse. But instead we'll keep seeing short-sighted stopgap measures that will do little to improve things.

Jeffshadows · Post by **Jeffshadows** » Feb 02 2009 1:33 pm

We would be far better off forcing developers to invest their money on urban renewal than allowing them to raze more desert and build more and more a shoddy claptrap; that's another issue, however.

Personally, I'd like to see how much money were spending every year housing, educating, fighting appeals against, and generally making life easier on inmates who are in prison for the worst offenses. When was the last time this state executed one of those SOBs?? How much does it cost to continue to prosecute the case against and house each one of these people?? There's your State Park operating budget right there!

Jeffshadows · Post by **Jeffshadows** » Feb 02 2009 4:17 pm

Here's the hit list:

Fort Verde State Historic Park in Camp Verde, Homolovi Ruins State Park in Winslow, Lyman Lake State Park in Springerville, McFarland State Historic Park in Florence, Oracle State Park in Oracle, Riordan Mansion State Historic Park in Flagstaff, Tubac Presidio State Historic Park in Tubac and Yuma Quartermaster Depot State Historic Park.

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Feb 02 2009 4:41 pm

Easier reading...

Alamo Lake 64,885
Boyce Thompson 73,174
Buckskin Mountain 93,709
Catalina 168,874
Cattail Cove 94,179
Dead Horse Ranch 133,822
Fool Hollow Lake 110,741
Fort Verde 15,992
Homolovi 15,200
Jerome 60,114
Kartchner 160,013
Lake Havasu 248,851
Lost Dutchman 100,424
Lyman Lake 42,018
McFarland 4,945
Oracle 9,898
Patagonia Lake 178,505
Picacho Peak 98,565
Red Rock 79,617
Riordan Mansion 26,209
Roper Lake 85,939
Slide Rock 249,759
Tombstone 52,588
Tonto Natural Bridge 87,930
Tubac Presidio 12,835
Yuma Crossing 11,676
Yuma Prison 67,851

So it is the lesser used parks.

chumley · Post by **chumley** » Feb 02 2009 6:15 pm

Will "lesser used" translate into "lesser trashed" when closed?

dysfunction · Post by **dysfunction** » Feb 02 2009 7:28 pm

chumley wrote:Will "lesser used" translate into "lesser trashed" when closed?

Probably into substantially more trashed

Jeffshadows · Post by **Jeffshadows** » Feb 02 2009 7:32 pm

Some of these historic/archaeological sites are definitely in for it...man I hate this.

fricknaley · Post by **fricknaley** » Feb 02 2009 8:29 pm

where'd you find that list, jeff?

PaleoRob · Post by **PaleoRob** » Feb 02 2009 8:33 pm

Figures that the arch parks would get the axe first. Ugh.
We'll have to find an alternate base camp for the spring PDR now too...

Nick; I heard that same list on NPR today as a provisional list.

chumley · Post by **chumley** » Feb 02 2009 10:42 pm

The list was on AZCentral this afternoon. Probably still there if you search. Five will be closed immediately, three more "likely" before the end of FY09 (June 30).

Here's the scary thing. FY10 is projecting an even larger deficit in the state budget, so further and deeper cuts will be required across the board next year too. This is just the beginning.

azdesertfather · Post by **azdesertfather** » Feb 02 2009 10:45 pm

I have a feeling that if Napolitano hadn't left, we wouldn't be going thru these cuts...

dysfunction · Post by **dysfunction** » Feb 02 2009 10:59 pm

dshillis wrote:I have a feeling that if Napolitano hadn't left, we wouldn't be going thru these cuts...

I have a feeling that no matter what something would be cut... one thing isn't necessarily better than another. the sad part is things will undoubtedly get worse.

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