PHOENIX — A federal appeals court on Thursday slapped down the U.S. Forest Service for charging fees for those who want to park and hike in the Catalina Mountains.
Judge Robert Gettleman, writing for the court, said the justification used by the federal agency to impose the fees is not only directly contrary to the law but that its arguments are “illogical.” And the court rejected the agency’s contention that even if it cannot charge for parking, it can do so for hiking and camping.
The ruling... overturns a ruling two years ago by a trial judge that the Forest Service was within its rights to charge $5 a day or $20 a year to those who park along the 28-mile Mount Lemmon Highway....
Beyond that, the judge said federal law “clearly contemplates that individuals can go to a place offering facilities and services without using the facilities and services and without paying a fee.”
For example, he said, the law precludes charging someone who walks, boats, rides or hikes through the forest without using the facilities and services.
I'm not sure what my spirit animal is, but I'm confident it has rabies.
Jim_H wrote:Good to know I can park and hike for free tomorrow.
Not 'free' - You have already paid many times over for this land.......
'The gub'ment cannot 'give' you something that they did not take from you first.
Let's see how CNF handles this.... Will the money-grabbing kiosk on Catalina Highway be in operation this W/E? (my money is on 'yes').
They have been informed that they are acting outside of the law - I doubt that that will dissuade them (as they have been aware of this for years); my bet is that they will continue to take advantage of the ill-informed and keep collecting their 'ill-gotten-gains'.
"How DARE you hike on your public lands!"
"The censorship method ... is that of handing the job over to some frail and erring mortal man, and making him omnipotent on the assumption that his official status will make him infallible and omniscient."
George Bernard Shaw
Ariz. group calls fees by rangers 'intimidating'Associated Press | Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:38 am |
An advocacy group says forest rangers are "intimidating" hikers into paying fees at recreation sites such as Sabino Canyon even though a federal court has blocked such fees.
The Arizona Daily Star reports that Kitty Benzar, president of the Western Slope No Fee Coalition, says rangers are writing "phony tickets" that intimidate visitors.
The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in February that the U.S. Forest Service cannot charge fees for those who park and hike in the Catalina Mountains north of Tucson.
Officials of the Coronado National Forest, which manages the recreation sites, said they could not comment in detail because litigation is continuing on the fee issue.
Heidi Schewel, a spokeswoman for the Coronado Forest, says fees are continuing in Sabino Canyon and Madera Canyon in spite of a court ruling to cease their collection.
"The censorship method ... is that of handing the job over to some frail and erring mortal man, and making him omnipotent on the assumption that his official status will make him infallible and omniscient."
George Bernard Shaw
I didn't pay a fee at Mt. Lemmon the week before last. It looked like the station was closed. I did pay at Sabino Canyon, but doing so didn't bother me because it has considerable infrastructure. I'm more opposed to charging that same amount of money for a wide spot in the road or a patch of gravel to park on.
Jim_H wrote:Wait, so even the Sabino Canyon location is no longer a fee site?
Heidi Schewel, a spokeswoman for the Coronado Forest, says fees are continuing in Sabino Canyon and Madera Canyon in spite of a court ruling to cease their collection.
I'm not sure what my spirit animal is, but I'm confident it has rabies.
Jim_H wrote:Wait, so even the Sabino Canyon location is no longer a fee site?
According to judge's decision stated in the first post of this thread, the fee is not linked to the site, it's linked to how you use the site. If you park the car and hike/bike/run there, you may refuse to pay the fee. But once you have used any table, toilet or trash can conveniently provided at the site, you must pay.
I honestly don't have a problem paying at Sabino, the services provided (whether I use them or not) and the maintenance provided (which everyone enjoys) are well worth it.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.
To me it is less about the admission money and more about a) wasteful gub'ment spending at large, but more importantly b) the disregard by the USFS of the law of the United States Gub'ment - not to mention their own 'mission statement' - clearly the definition of tyranny.
We strive to meet the needs of our customers in fair, friendly, and open ways. (three strikes you're out) We maintain high professional and ethical (?) standards.
Here's the kicker.... We follow laws, regulations, executive direction, and congressional intent.
Clearly, they left out the caveat 'if it suits us', from all of these.
"The censorship method ... is that of handing the job over to some frail and erring mortal man, and making him omnipotent on the assumption that his official status will make him infallible and omniscient."
George Bernard Shaw
ok. so last weekend i was at madera canyon and i realized when i was at the turnoff to josphine peak that i forgot to put up my parking pass in my car. i figured that i'd have a ticket when i got back, but $55 without a chance to go to court?! what should i do?
There are just two switchbacks left. And another half-mile to the destination...
55.00 Parking Ticket??? Makes me wonder about that whole Tucson area. I wouldn't know where you can park and where you can't park without some sort of Pass, which I wouldn't know about either....
I would go to the issueing Agency and complain first and foremost and show them your pass....If there's no Court involved, they may be able to quash it right then and there.....If they don't want to do that, then start making phone calls to whoever might have a say...City, County, State....If nothing else, to demand your day in Court.....
Lifeis not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming,"Wow What a Ride!"
Understand, when you eat meat, that something did die. You have an obligation to value it - not just the sirloin but also all those wonderful tough little bits.
Anthony Bourdain
cindyl wrote:ok. so last weekend i was at madera canyon and i realized when i was at the turnoff to josphine peak that i forgot to put up my parking pass in my car. i figured that i'd have a ticket when i got back, but $55 without a chance to go to court?! what should i do?
If Madera does it like the Red Rock Pass (which I believe they do) - I would do nothing - anyone who endeavors to fine you needs to prove who was 'recreating' - the fee is not a 'parking fee' as such (because that is illegal per the statute) - it is for someone who is using the land AND the amenities. If you phone or write them you have established that it was YOU who was there. Otherwise they will merely know is who the registered owner of the vehicle is - not necessarily who was at the site.
The other tact has already been mentioned ('show them your papers') but we already know what a can-of-worms THAT is.
Regardless, best of luck in the outcome.
"The censorship method ... is that of handing the job over to some frail and erring mortal man, and making him omnipotent on the assumption that his official status will make him infallible and omniscient."
George Bernard Shaw
Hike Arizona it is full of sharp, pointy, ankle-twisting, HAZmaster crushing ROCKS!!
Hike Arizona it is full of sharp, pointy, shin-stabbing, skin-shredding plants!
Hike Arizona it is full of striking, biting, stabbing, venomous wildlife!
nonot wrote:Is it true, official, and already in place - no more Catalina fee for climbing, hiking, backpacking, canyoneering, etc?
Just to be exact, those things never cost a dime. It was parking on FS property that cost money. If somehow you could get there on foot, everything was free. It was a vehicle fee.
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.
The drift I get is that these are mostly picnic areas. It seems they are providing very limited free parking for well-known trails. It does not SEEM to indicate anything regarding dispersed camping, or parking in a wide spot alongside the highway for off-trail hiking or rock climbing. (I haven't been exploring up there enough in the past 2 years to know if they still have dispersed car camping. Deborah M would know about this, and Jeff MacE.)
It does not say where you are expected to park if you want to go hiking and the parking lot is full. What if you are starting a three-day backpacking trip and the free slots are all full, such as at Molino? Do they expect you to pay the fee three times?
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.
Route Editor
Route Scout
Makes me wonder about that whole Tucson area. I wouldn't know where you can park and where you can't park without some sort of Pass, which I wouldn't know about either....
](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall"){kind=small}
ARGH!
