We should keep the name Squaw Peak instead of Piestewa Peak

[Trans tech]

I don't think I will ever be able to call one of my childhood favorite landmarks Piestewa Peak. I have yet to meet a Arizonan that is happy about the whole way it came about. Its to bad that we are expected to give up so much tradition just to apeeze a few sqeeky wheels. Lets take America back.

[AZHikr4444]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, of course.

In the spirit of tolerance and cultural diversity, and to honor the sacrifice Lori made, I think it is a small concession.

Native American people have served the United States Military in every single war and engagement since the Revolutionary War, and in more numbers per population than any other cultural group. They were right there when the rest of the world was trying to "take America".

Changing the name of a landmark because of offensive etymology, or the name of a sports team or mascot because of its contribution to stereotyping, are the actions of culturally sensitive people.

Squeaky Wheel

[Trans tech]

In response to AZHikr4444's reply: The word SQUAW considered as an offensive word originated from two students in Boulder Colorado in around 1974. Most Tribes consider it a form of endearment such as Mother. We have friends in Tuba city that cant figure out what the fuss is all about, they still have Squaw dances on the Reservations.

If a tribute that were made to ALL our fallen Soldiers, rather than just ONE, that was voted on by the people of AZ not the political agenda of one Govenor, would be a much more widely embraced event/name.

It will be interesting to see if it is finally adopted permently when the ten year moritorium is up. The U.S. government only reconizes it as Squaw Peak.

Lets support All our Soldiers.

[sidhayes]

Thank you Mr. Trans tech. I was, and continue to be irritated at the name change.

[AZHikr4444]

In response to Trans tech's reply:

As far as an offensive word, I'm sure individual people find squaw more offensive than others. While your friends in Tuba City may not, thats understandable. People from Algonquian tribes may, however. Most Indian people that I know would probably not admit to being overly "offended", but they sure don't like it. Much like most African American people don't particularly like to be referred to as "colored". It not necessarily the word itself, but its historical implications. I don't know about the Boulder Colorado origins, but the word has its roots in the Algonquian language, and its use as a derogative far predates 1974.

I agree with you- all of our soldiers deserve our respect and support!

[Trans tech]

In response to AZHikr4444's reply: Should we change any name that one very small group (one tribe verses the vast majority of the tribes) because they are offended?? Some people believe that we should not ever fly the Stars and stripes because it offends them. There are over 400 place names in Arizona with the name Squaw. Did you know the apache word for fornication is LAW? (so remember, "Don't break the Law")

[Trans tech]

Just thought you might find this interesting...never hurts to do a little research.........In the 1960s and 70s a small but vocal minority in the United States began to question our use of certain words that may be offensive to specific groups or individuals. In some cases these questions were justified but the impossible task of trying to purge our language of all possible offensive terms has caused the movement to grow beyond all reason. Many perfectly acceptable words have been branded as offensive or sexist by the movement. The political correctness advocates then proceed to try to get them eliminated from public use. Among these is the word 'squaw.'

'Squaw' has a perfectly acceptable definition: it means 'woman', or 'wife' in the Algonquian language where it originated. The radical American Indian Movement (A.I.M.) has fairly successfully attached a false meaning to the word and spread the lie nationwide. They have then been able to use this fallacy to support a systematic removal of all place names that use this word. Phoenix is a recent victim of this offense.

Below you will find links to research, opinion, and news on the word 'squaw' and its use as a place name.

The Changing Perception of the Word 'Squaw' by Tom Jonas

Comment on the "Squaw" Controversy by Jim Fay, Ph.D.

In response to AZHikr4444's reply:[/b]

[AZHikr4444]

In response to Trans tech's reply:

There is still a great controversy surrounding whether or not the word squaw has derogatory origins. Regardless of tribe, I think most Indian women would not like it if you called them a squaw. Don't you think? Even if they agreed that it wasn't intended to be derogatory, they still wouldn't like it. Maybe I am too much of a "squaw man", but my wife doesn't like it if I refer to her as "broad", and certainly I would be in the dog house if I referred to her in the possessive, ie., "my old lady". Those terms of endearment may have been common in the 70's, but times change.

I'm curious- was a poll or survey ever conducted, or should it be conducted, of all the Indian people in the valley (cuz you're right- the decision to change the name only pertains to people here) as to whether they found the name offensive, and whether they supported the change? :idea:

We'll have to change our gorp a bit for the pavement hike- but I'm there with ya Trans!

Breakin' the law! Breakin' the law!

[AZHikr4444]

In response to Trans tech's reply:

Yes I have read both articles you cite. As I said, there is still much controversy regarding whether the origins of the word connotate a reference to female genitalia. Regardless, the word is and has been used in a derogatory manner. It simply has.

What AIM has accomplished, whether there was a more appropriate way or not, is to help Indian people regain a voice. If many or most Indian people say the word is offensive, then I don't care if it was first uttered during a saturday matinee of the Lone Ranger (by the way, "Kemo Sabe" is some obscure word for "honky"), I wouldn't use it. Despite the "changing perception" and the work he put into the article, Jonas still maintains that even he wouldn't use it.

Thanks for the debate Trans...

ttl
Mike

[te_wa]

hey AZHikr, how about not using the word "Indian". thats a start. Talk about offensive, kind sir!

Did you people know that there are several Squaw Peaks around the state?
at least 6, maybe more, and many of them of course are on Reservation Land!

think clearly, dude

[Trans tech]

In response to AZHikr4444's reply: I'm not sure what giving the Indians a voice as a white guy has to with forcing a name change on the majority of Arizonans. If I was not from Arizona it probably wouldn't really mater to me.

Those of us that grew up here and remember Walice and Ladmo, Ledgin City, Los Arcos mall and Farrelles ice cream parlor, Tortia Flats and Rawhide, its all about tradition. I grew up at around 52st. and Cactus. Some people wondered why we would want to live so far out in the desert away from civilization. Heck were the last of the great Southwest and people want to move here and change things to be like places they moved away from.

[Trans tech]

In response to AZHikr4444's reply:
Hi, this is Trans Guys wife; In reference to your response, there are no accurate historical documents that link the word squaw to female genitalia, that was a reference created to inflame the general public, and incite support for an obscure group of radicals. As with any small group, they do not represent the general opinion of the group the claim to represent.

Jonas said he would not use the word in a derogatory manner, as he would not refer to a woman as "heh woman" or "heh squaw" not as in he would not use the word to describe gender, in the correct forum.

The name change was an attempt by our govenor to curry vote and public opinion. If she had bothered to take general opinion poles such as the ones you were questioning earlier, and the ones taken AFTER the name change, she would have found the the Arizona general public, was much more offended by her heavy handedness..

We have friends in Iraq, and respect more than anyone the sacrifices made over there. Our heart goes out to Lori's family. But what about all the other families in Arizona who lost loved ones?? Where is their monument?? Why is her life more precious than theirs?? How about we all just live our lives and respect each individual for who they are today, instead of labeling people (or using them for a politcal platform) based on color, gender, ancestory or they way park their car.....

: queen :

[AZHikr4444]

In response to mikeinFHAZ's reply:

I can only relate what I have experienced. The majority of Indian people that [/i] i know do not object to the use of the word Indian. It has become theirs so to speak. The majority of the people i know do object to the use of the word squaw, regardless of its roots in language.

I am merely stating my opinion. I do not know many Indian people in Arizona, hence the question asking if there was a poll conducted as to whether Indian people found squaw offensive, and whether they supported the name change.

I do not know the political history behind the name change. Regardless of that history, no one can deny that the word squaw has derogatory connotation.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. In my experience, Indian people find the word squaw offensive. Therefore I will call it Piestewa Peak. You are welcome, of course, to call it what you like. Its too hot to climb it anyway.

[AZHikr4444]

In response to AZHikr4444's reply:

oops my italics went screwy.

[Trans tech]

In response to AZHikr4444's reply: The best time to climb our Peaks here in the valley is when the temp. is a perfect 100 degrees, when your drinking lots of water and your heart rate is up, it's quite euphoric
.

[zonagoph]

In response to Trans tech's reply:
I agree with AZhikr, my experiences with Natives Americans and my friends who are Native Americans tell me that most find it offensive, but just don't speak out about it... I don't see anything wrong with calling it Piestewa Peak... If we're going to use Native American symbolism to name landmarks, why not Piestewa instead of squaw? Isn't naming it after a fallen soldier more noble and worthy? Governor Janet did the right thing, just used the wrong process...

[Trans tech]

In response to zonagoph's reply: My biggest beef with whole thing, (other than a Socialist ramming it down Arizona's throat) is those of us that grew up here have always loved the mountain and name as a special place. It's had that name since 1903 until it was flushed for political gain. Therefore the new name will always have a very negative association.
If the name has to be changed from Squaw Peak, it should be put out to all of Arizona for a vote.

[zonagoph]

In response to Trans tech's reply:
Dude, call it whatever you want, you may view it as a political play (which is a sad argument, especially considering everything else, politically, that's going on), I think your incorrect on that, but, if we're going to call it anything, maybe we should find out what the tribes that were here before 1903 called it, i have a solution...

How about ZONA'S ZUMMIT

hike on...

[tempe23]

I 100% agree with transtech. Why should this one person have it named after her. Did she do anything more than the other hundreds of thousands of soldiers that are in Iraq??? Is she any more important than any of them???? NO. I am not saying that she didnt give up her life for our country at all. She did, and anyone who has is heroic in my book. I think it is in a way disrespectfu to all the other soldiers that have died in wars over the ages. All of these people gave up their lives in wars fighting for our country and did any of them have mountains named after them??? NO. There are two Arizona residents that I would choose in a heartbeat over Piestewa that deserve respect. First, Pat Tillman, he gave up more than anyone could have asked for because he was a patriot. Second, John McCain who fought in Vietnam and was a P.O.W. for several months. Also, everyone else from Arizona that has served in war times. I think that it is rediculous that Squaw Peak would be renamed. What would be a good monument????? I would think something downtown at the Heard museam or in that area representing Piestewa would be an excellent idea. It would help people that go to that area to learn about Arizona's native american history also learn of this womans great sacrifice. Thats my two cents

[mttgilbert]

We renamed the peak?

Oh Yeah, now I remember. The gov pushed the legislature to change the rules so that the peak could be renamed before the waiting period for such things...

Does it really matter anyway guys? I was born and raised here, that peak will always be squaw to me.

Besides, arizona is the only place that calls it something else. On the national registry it's still 'squaw', USGS still calls it 'squaw'. It just all seems like a waste of time to argue over whether it should be named after ol' Lorrie, sure she did her duty, but I'd like to point out that all she did was her duty, she signed up for a job that she knew might cost her her life and it did, she did nothing exceptional, nothing that hundreds of thousands of others haven't done already. If it makes four or five people in the state happy to call it that, let them. To the rest of us, we'll just keep calling it the name it always has been (and always will be).