Carry a handgun under 21?

justind145 · Post by **justind145** » Sep 16 2005 12:13 pm

Is there anyway to be under the age of 21 yet still be able to carry a handgun to use for defense while hiking? I've encountered some of these less than friendly individuals that are spoken of on these boards and i dont think my knife would do me much good and a rifle just doesnt fit the need here.

hikeaz · Post by **hikeaz** » Sep 16 2005 12:27 pm

justind145 wrote: All kidding aside, is there anyway to be under the age of 21 yet still be able to carry a handgun to use for defense while hiking?

Are you wanting to carry concealed?

A large portion of the land area in Arizona is controlled by agencies of the federal government or Indian tribes. Firearms cannot be carried in areas controlled by the National Park Service (e.g., National Parks and National Monuments administered by the NPS); National Forests do not ban firearms but may limit shooting areas. Any firearm carried in a vehicle in a National Park must be unloaded, preferably disabled and secured outside the control of any occupant of the vehicle.

kurt

justind145 · Post by **justind145** » Sep 16 2005 1:02 pm

Well i doubt i'd be able to carry concealed, im under 21 and dont have a CCW. So on lands designated national forests, would that mean the 21 requirement didnt stand?

hikeaz · Post by **hikeaz** » Sep 16 2005 1:35 pm

In response to justind145's reply:

Arizona is an "open carry" State.

It's my understanding that if it's in a (non-concealed) holster &/or not otherwise concealed, it's OK to carry if you're over 18 presuming the AREA in which you are allows it.
The minimum in Az. for a CCW is 21. (there are other criteria, but this is the only age-related one)

ARS 13-3102. Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions

A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly:

1. Carrying a deadly weapon without a permit pursuant to section 13-3112, except a pocketknife, concealed on his person. Class 1 misdemeanor.

This section shall not apply to:

· A weapon or weapons carried in a belt holster which holster is wholly or partially visible, or carried in a scabbard or case designed for carrying weapons which scabbard or case is wholly or partially visible or carried in luggage.

Further.....

2. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly carrying a deadly weapon without a permit pursuant to section 13-3112 concealed within immediate control of any person in or on a means of transportation. Class 1 misdemeanor.

This section shall not apply to:

· A weapon or weapons carried in a case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage, which is carried within a means of transportation or within a storage compartment, trunk or glove compartment of a means of transportation.

kurt

justind145 · Post by **justind145** » Sep 16 2005 3:22 pm

Awesome information, quite different than other information i'd been given. Thanks!

One last question...does that mean that I could purchase a handgun and ammunition if under 21?

mttgilbert · Post by **mttgilbert** » Sep 16 2005 7:40 pm

I believe you still have to be 21 to purchase handguns or ammunition for hand guns. The reason being, a handgun is generally considered an offensive weapon (ie it's not used for hunting). Rifles, shotguns, and appropriate ammunition are available to those over 18

hikeaz · Post by **hikeaz** » Sep 19 2005 11:26 am

In response to matt gilbert's reply:

It is my understanding, that in Arizona, a firearm= a firearm. Rifle, shotgun & handgun.

ARS - 13-105. Definitions: 17. "Firearm" means any loaded or unloaded handgun, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun or other weapon which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of expanding gases, except that it does not include a firearm in permanently inoperable condition.

Likely a call to a local gun shop could clear up any confusion; or a visit to the local public library for a book on Arizona gun laws.
You might try >

AZ LAW states that...
An unemancipated person under 18 not accompanied by a parent, grandparent, guardian, or a certified hunter safety instructor or certified firearms safety instructor acting with consent of the minor's parent, grandparent or guardian shall not carry or possess on his person, within his immediate control, or in or on a means of transportation a firearm in any place open to the public or on any street, highway, or on private property, except private property owned or leased by the minor or the minor's parent, grandparent, or guardian.
This prohibition does not apply to a person between 14 and 17 engaged in lawful hunting, marksmanship practice, transportation of an unloaded firearm for the purpose of hunting or, between 5:00 AM and 10:00 PM, transportation of an unloaded firearm for the purpose of marksmanship at a range or other area where the discharge of firearms is not prohibited.
This law applies in counties with a population exceeding 500,000.

Further...

ARS 13-3111) struck down by Division 2 of the Arizona Court of Appeals in December 1999 (In Re Cesar R., 197 Ariz. 4 P3d 980 (Ct. App. 1999), review denied?

While counties can now pass their own ordinances regulating firearm carry by juveniles (ARS 13-3108.C), statewide, if you are in legal possession of the handgun, you can legally carry it in an exposed belt holster. Anyone under 18 would likely have to fall under one of the exemptions or risk becoming a test case, since ARS 13-3111 apparently still remains on the books, despite the appellate court ruling

hikeaz · Post by **hikeaz** » Sep 19 2005 12:59 pm

Found a bit more info ........

In Arizona there is no minimum age to possess firearms under Arizona law, although federal law generally prohibits the possession of a handgun or handgun ammunition by anyone under the age of 18. 18 U.S.C. § 922(x)(2), (3) and (5).

Federal law prohibits firearms dealers from selling or delivering a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any person the dealer knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 18. 18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(1), (c)(1).
Dealers are prohibited from selling or delivering other firearms (e.g., handguns) or ammunition for those firearms to any person the dealer knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 21. Id.

Federal law provides less stringent age restrictions with respect to sales by unlicensed persons. Unlicensed persons generally may not sell, deliver or otherwise transfer a handgun or handgun ammunition to any person the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 18.[/b] 18 U.S.C. § 922(x)(1), (3) and (5). Federal law provides no age limitations with respect to the sale of a long gun by an unlicensed person.

So, as is the norm when the Big G (read Federal Government) gets involved... it's confusing and a bit ambiguous ...
but it appears that, as far as the feds are concerned, an 18 year old may purchase a handgun and ammo for same from an "unlicensed person", which we could likely presume is a "private party" type transaction - BUT, could not buy the handgun or ammo for same from a "licensed dealer".
Regarding purchases from an "unlicensed person", no background check is required; whereas one IS required on purchasess from a "dealer".
" Licensed dealer" is defined (A) any person engaged in the
business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail, (B) any person
engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or
fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms,
or (C) any person who is a pawnbroker. The term ''licensed
dealer'' means any dealer who is licensed under the provisions of
this chapter.

Arizona had prohibited minors (defined as any person under age 18; see Ariz. Rev. Stat. § 1-215 (22)) from possessing or carrying firearms, subject to specific exceptions, under former section 13-3111. While section 13-3111 is still codified within the Arizona Revised Statutes, the entire statute was expressly declared unconstitutional in In Re Cesar R., 4 P.3d 980 (1999).

Arizona prohibits any person from selling or giving a firearm or ammunition or a toy pistol from which dangerous and explosive substances may be discharged to a minor without written consent of the minor’s parent or legal guardian. Section § 13-3109(A).

The prohibition under section 13-3109(A) does not apply to the temporary transfer of firearms and ammunition by firearms safety instructors, hunter safety instructors, or competition coaches or their assistants, if the minor’s parent or guardian has given consent for the minor to participate in activities such as firearms or hunting safety courses, firearms competition, or training. Section 13-3109(C). With the consent of the minor’s parent or guardian, the temporary transfer of firearms and ammunition by an adult accompanying minors engaged in hunting or formal or informal target shooting activities shall be allowed for those purposes. Id .

jeremy77777 · Post by **jeremy77777** » Sep 30 2005 9:56 am

I was arrested when I was 17 for carrying a loaded handgun is a state park. (Usery Mountain) They didn't care about my age, just that my handgun had two rounds in the cylinder......LONG story