Hiking/ camping on Indian lands

[Yellowhorse]

Hello HAZ mates. I'm wondering how to get reliable info on the rules about hiking on land that that is owned or controlled by the tribes.

I did see it addressed in a couple other threads, but no answers to my specific questions. Maybe somebody here can point us in the right direction. Specifically, here's what we have in mind. One route, part of a fairly long trip, would take us from near the town of Pima on the Gila River, north thru what looks on the map to be Reservation and past the town of Whiteriver... then on further north to the Mogollon Rim. I gather that would be the Apache tribe territory, but not certain.

So, trying to be appropriately considerate of the rules/ custom, are white civilians allowed, or not alllowed, or allowed with permits or what? Where do you go to get the gospel rule or permits if that's what it takes? Can we expect harrassment from natives who see us as tresspassers?

The route also crosses the middle stretch of the Salt River in the vicinity 33* 34' 11.56"N 109* 55' 13.83"W, no bridges. Anyone know first hand about what kind of flow would be expected there in March, or how I'd find out?

Thanks for any good advice.

[PaleoRob]

Some tribes issues recreation/hiking permits, some do not. I'd check the tribal websites and see if they have a Department of Recreation, etc. and what their rules and regulations are. I know the Navajo Nation issues hiking permits and at least one of the Apache groups does as well.
Streamflow? Check: http://waterdata.usgs.gov/az/nwis/rt

[chumley]

The areas you are talking about are covered by two separate reservations of the Apache. The southern half is managed by the San Carlos Apache Tribe and the northern half by the White Mountain Apache Tribe. You can get information about permits and fees on their respective websites:
http://www.sancarlosapache.com/Permits_Information.htm or http://www.scatrwd.com/
http://www.wmatoutdoors.org/

There are some fairly restrictive rules regarding some of the river areas, so make sure you know their rules/laws well. They are happy to confiscate your equipment in return for not following their laws. They operate under their own legal system, so "innocent until proven guilty" isn't a concept you encounter if you choose to ignore a rule.

[azbackpackr]

I am curious: Of all the hundreds of long hike routes one could consider in Arizona, why did you pick that one? I personally lived for 12 years within spittin' distance of the White Mtn. Apache and San Carlos Apache reservations, in Eagar AZ, and never once hiked on either one of them. There were millions of acres of National Forest, BLM and State lands to hike, and plenty of rivers and streams to follow, canyons to traverse, mountains to climb, trails and old jeep tracks to follow, so I never felt the need to go onto their lands. The Blue Primitive Area, for example, could keep you busy hiking for years.

I have long considered it would be interesting to thru-hike a route from Flagstaff, AZ to the Gila Wilderness in New Mexico, in the summer. I think in a way it would be easier than doing the one long trail we do have: the Arizona Trail. There are more resupply points, and there is fairly regular water. Plus, in summer, you would mostly be in the high country where it is nice and cool, and tends to rain in the afternoons. (The AZT goes up and down and up and down. Hot in summer, snowy in winter.) My idea would take you through several hundred miles of high country. No permits needed, and no Indian Reservations to cross--it is virtually all National Forest the entire way. The route is roughly from Flagstaff to Happy Jack, Christopher Creek, Heber, Show Low, Vernon, Eagar, Big Lake, Hannagan, Blue River, Glenwood New Mexico, Gila Wilderness, etc. (Maybe this summer I should shoulder my pack and walk home to Eagar...)

[Yellowhorse]

Thanks Rob. That stream report site is excellent. I expect to refer to it quite a bit.

Thanks Chumley. Those two sites go some ways to answering the question and give me a contact to get the rest. Apparently the answer is we aren't excluded and we need permits or 'special permits' to do waht we want to do. Which is better news than "fuggedaboudit".

Azbackpacker, I like your long trek idea. If the linked trails aren't already there, at least the continuous unspoiled terrain is. Your idea is not far off from ours, borrowed from the 'transect' idea thanks to Michael Fey and others. Fey did transects in Africa and the US redwoods habitat. The idea for ours is a 110 transect, border to border up the spine of the continent, finishing at Glacier Park.

I lived in Flagstaff years ago, hiked, rafted, xc skied all around, and I'm embarassed to say never knew about the AZT. Hence in laying out the route for our trip, I didn't use it at all. My route starts at the border on the San Pedro, thru the Cochise stronghold, over a corner of the Galiuro, to Klodyke and a side trip to the Aravaipa, thru the Santa Theresa Wilderness and north east to the Gila at Pima or so.

Here's where I answer your question. From there we can go up the urbanized corridor: Globe, Teddy Roosevelt, Payson. Basically a climb up the valley where we're never away from hearing the highways. One alternate route takes us up across the 70/188 into the upper Salt drainage, to Fort Apache and then up the Carrizo corridor to the Rim. I like it much better for several reasons. [Correcting my original post, technically the stream we cross I was asking about is called the Black River at that spot, not the Salt].

The fact that some of the land they crossed was Indian land didn't stop Lewis and Clark or JC Fremont, so I guess we are going to try and not let it bother us either. I spose we'll need to be a bit more politically correct than some of our pathfining ancestors tho, when it comes to the natives. If permits are what it takes, okay.

Do tell more aout the Blue Primitive area.