Newbie requests, manners and responsible replies

[chumley]

In the past week or so there have been a couple of threads that addressed requests by new posters to the forum. From some of the replies, I thought it might be good to have a separate thread on the emerging subject of how to best reply to such requests.

For background see: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7504
and viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7499

In my opinion, one of the great things about this website is that extra care is given to try to make it a welcoming place for visitors, not just a site where a group of regulars banter with one another and dismiss the thoughts and opinions of newbies. The forum rules are geared toward this, specifically requiring courteous disagreement and

Making first time posters or anyone feel unwelcome on site is unacceptable.

When somebody has participated on HAZ for a while we have the ability to look at their triplogs and hike statistics to get a general idea of their hiking abilities based on past adventures. Often there are new posters with whom we don't have that luxury. We have only the data that is provided in their query.

In one of the threads, the following post was presented and probably warrants some discussion (edited for length and generalized):

A lot of good points here.

And a lot of knee-jerk reactions... I say that because the original poster hasn't yet responded with answers to the questions about previous, experience, maturity, etc. Without us being privy to that information we are all shooting in the dark.

I hope the original poster will come back and read them all.

Why would they want to step into the hornets nest that seems to have sprung up over ... their request

Sometimes, you know, we get these new members, and they forget to check back.

Ha! Forgetting to check back??? I refer back to the hornets nest above. As much as some folks here provided genuine information to assist the objective of the original poster, I daresay there has been as much, if not more negativity in the responses. Why this overkill?
...
How about welcoming new members with possibly a bit more tact, responding to their questions with more of a genuine interest in their quest...

I agree with some of what both CannondaleKid and azbackpackr have to say.

I think one thing that must also be mentioned is that people post here looking for the opinions of regular users. Anybody should understand that opinions will vary. A very important aspect of forum posts that must be considered is that the audience is not limited to the original poster. People will search and find these threads for years to come. So if the original post does not specifically state what kind of skill level is involved, I think it is perfectly appropriate, and possibly even incumbent, for the replies to politely mention the risks/dangers that might be associated with the request. The future reader may not have the experience of the OP and if said politely, it should not be offensive nor make the OP feel unwelcome.

Assumptions are always dangerous, and in many cases there is a dearth of information. Asking the OP for additional information before replying is often a good choice. But sometimes putting out the general dangers or concerns is a fine idea if done politely. Somebody wants to do a Rim3 in August? I might mention the heat, and potential for monsoon storms; A weeklong Supes backpack in June? I might mention planning a route around known water sources; A Humphrey's summit in January? Some mention of snow depth, temperature, avalanche danger, etc.; A borderlands backpacking trip? Perhaps a mention of immigration and smuggling? None of these things should be offensive, even to people who are already aware of them and prepared to deal with them. But they might be helpful to the next person who reads the post. Next year or 5 years from now.

I am guilty of coming off a bit acerbic in the forum sometimes. I might even be largely responsible for the strong warnings now in place for posts about fatalities and missing hikers. I've learned over the years that a good rule of thumb to follow is not to write something in the forum that you wouldn't say to somebody face-to-face. It's not always easy to follow, but I think it's a good guide to begin with.

Every hike on this website has a disclaimer below it that states:

WARNING! Hiking and outdoor related sports can be dangerous. Be responsible and prepare for the trip. Study the area you are entering and plan accordingly. Dress for the current and unexpected weather changes. Take plenty of water. Never go alone. Make an itinerary with your plan(s), route(s), destination(s) and expected return time. Give your itinerary to trusted family and/or friends.

I am not offended by the warning, though I personally find it to be silly. And yet I do the same thing when I reply in the forum -- erring on the side of caution, hoping that the request is made by somebody who knows what they are doing, but also assuming that it will be read by others who may not be. I can probably do so more tactfully than I have in the past to make people feel more welcome.

[outdoor_lover]

I've learned over the years that a good rule of thumb to follow is not to write something in the forum that you wouldn't say to somebody face-to-face.

That's a good rule of thumb, but it's hard to follow sometimes since when you are talking to someone "face to face", like I was with the 2 kids that wanted to Hike from Superior to Oracle on a "whim", you can ask questions and get answers before you render an opinion.

The one poster, although he was brand new to this site, posted an "event". This is somewhat unusual for a new Member to do this. He was not actually asking for any advice or information, but he did get plenty didn't he???

I think that we tend to assume sometimes, that when someone new comes on this site, that they don't have any experience or are totally uninformed about things when they get here. And I think we all know that that is not necessarily true. There are alot of adventurers out there, that have superb skill levels that surpass many others on this site. The big problem is that they do not elaborate on their skill level and expertise when they first arrive and start asking questions. And then it leaves everyone wondering, so it is helpful if the new poster can somewhat "introduce" themselves, or at least get back to the topic that they started within a reasonable time if someone does have questions for them.

In Peter's case, he never even asked for advice or information and the assumptions ran a little nuts... ;) Even with Louie trying to appease the posters as to Peter's skill level...

But, that is the nature of forums, and once a thread gets going, it's going....

Assumption can be a very bad thing. I think that in the future, instead of assuming anything, more questions should be asked up front and give the OP a chance to provide more information so that the thread can head in a more productive, reasonable direction. If the OP does not want to clarify anything, or just doesn't get back to their topic, that they started, in a reasonable amount of time, then the matter should be dropped so as to not get too carried away...

I know when I post, looking for information, I try to check back pretty frequently to see what the responses are. But then again, I pitch a tent on this site, so that's not hard to do....

Just my

[big_load]

I think it's always worthwhile to think twice before clicking "Submit". That said, I think HAZ is a generally very civil community with remarkably few exceptions, especially compared to other forums. I can't think offhand of anyone here I wouldn't hike with at least once (as long as I'm allowed to be fully clad).

[Jeffshadows]

"People skills" are quickly becoming a lost art.

[chumley]

@jeffmacewen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCC_PxRWVI4

[----]

One thing I could suggest to new members is to post a few triplogs along with photos that represent your hiking interests and skillset. That way when you post an event or whatever, others can look at your profile and immediately get an idea of what kind of hiker you are. Just a thought.

[Jeffshadows]

@chumley