Trail Help

[KwaiChang]

Hi Gang - my computer got replaced at work and I lost this link for what seems to be forever!

At any rate I am looking to hike the Canyon again - it is in my blood now and I can not stay away!! What I am looking for and hoping that someone can help me with is a trail into the canyon and ultimately ending up at Phantom that doesn't start with South or Bright from the South Rim.

Having done the Rim to Rim via SK to PR and then up the NK I am looking to AVOID the corridor trails altogether. What I am hoping for is a trail that I can pitch off of the South Rim and make it down to PR in a day. I am a fairly fast paced hiker by nature so length shouldn't be much of an issue.

I can only guess that at some point I will connect with either the end of the SK or BA to make the bridge crossing - certainly not going to paddle my way across the Colorado!!

Thanks in advance!!! Oh and I am looking to do this hike from a mid May to mid June time frame.

Kwai

[azbackpackr]

Um...why do you want to go to Phantom? You've been there already, right? Been there, done that, got the t-shirt?

Why not do a Tonto Loop? Go down Hermit, come out BA--that's a good one for semi-noobs such as yourself. Camp at Hermit Creek, Monument Creek, and third night at either Salt Creek or IG.

Another good semi-noob trip is Grandview Trail to Horseshoe Mesa. The only bugaboo being you have to hike down to Miner's/Page Spring to get water. It's not a long hike, either, only about 3 or 4 miles down to the backpacker campground at Horseshoe Mesa.

Just some ideas to get you out of the Corridor way of thinking...

[chumley]

The only access to Phantom is via SK or BA. However there are other options as azbackpacker states.

I would recommend the Hermit Trail. If you must access the river, it is an easy hike from the Hermit Camp or Monument Camp. Both hikes are about 10 miles one way, so if you want to do a day trip it is certainly possible for somebody with canyon experience.

This map has all the standard canyon trails on it: http://hikearizona.com/map.php?QX=2771
And this has the GPS tracks for the two river access points via Hermit Trail: http://hikearizona.com/map.php?QX=2772

But, from mid-May to Mid-June, it's VERY hot in the lower elevations, and a daytrip is NOT recommended because you really want not to be hiking between 10am-4pm. So unless you hike very early in the morning -- I wouldn't personally make a day trip to the river.

[KwaiChang]

Thanks guys - Hey Chumley, question for ya - the last time I hiked to PR was in Mid May, 2011 - it was very seasonable - mid-upper 80's - u saying thats not the norm??? It was snowing on the North Rim when we made it over there on the 3rd day it was open for the season.

I can see Mid June being a lil on the dicey side temp wise....am I right in that line of thinking???

[chumley]

It is very unusual for there to be snowfall in May on the north rim. The NPS website has average weather data at the bottom of this page: http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/w ... dition.htm

While this just shows the average, it can obviously be cooler or warmer on any given day that you are there.

But May 15 the high temperature at Phantom averages 92 degrees, and June 15 it averages 101. There are few places with shade in the canyon, so the sun makes it extra difficult to deal with. That is why the recommendation is for no hiking between 10 and 4 in the summer.

You were "lucky" to be there during a spring storm where the temperatures up top supported snow, because the temperature at the bottom was much more moderate. That's unusual.

[sam_hikes]

The heat is on as PR temps are forecasted to be over 105F.

NWS site below provides realtime+7 day history for both Phantom Ranch & Indian Gardens.

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/fgz/Rec_Forecas ... T688+AT680

[sirena]

I just got off the river a couple of days ago and it is officially hot at the bottom of the canyon. Hiked up to the Deer Creek Patio soaking wet and it was still toasty. A siesta schedule is your best bet.

[Hippy]

Another good semi-noob trip is Grandview Trail to Horseshoe Mesa. The only bugaboo being you have to hike down to Miner's/Page Spring to get water. It's not a long hike, either, only about 3 or 4 miles down to the backpacker campground at Horseshoe Mesa.

Could always loop the mesa too, what's that loop, 13 miles? But it's "a bit warm" to do it during the day now, could night hike it!
actually, that's not a bad idea.
I DID "accidently" stash some water out there like a month ago not far from the base of the butte....Ranger Evan said it was still "hidden" as of last sunday. *ahem* I oughta go pick that up sometime.

As for PR....you know you can order "the shirt" online right?

[azbackpackr]

Could always loop the mesa too, what's that loop, 13 miles? But it's "a bit warm" to do it during the day now, could night hike it!
actually, that's not a bad idea.
I DID "accidently" stash some water out there like a month ago not far from the base of the butte....Ranger Evan said it was still "hidden" as of last sunday. *ahem* I oughta go pick that up sometime.

As for PR....you know you can order "the shirt" online right?

Hip, I'm putting in for that for October as a backpack. I realize it's short enough for a day hike, but I like to backpack. I haven't yet hiked that little section of Tonto.

[Hippy]

@azbackpackr it's a nice area, I haven't done the loop yet, it looks like a blast from the top of the Butte...but let me know when you head out maybe I can join ya or at least stash some water on the north end for ya

[azbackpackr]

Thanks! And I need to put in for it today! I need to wind down the yardsale I'm currently having, finish my permit application and get to the library fax machine before they close at 2 p.m! BYE!

I'm putting in for two people. I can add more later.

[KwaiChang]

Liz - as always thanks for the suggestions.

My conundrum is this - I really do not want to camp. I would rather go light - I would like to pitch off the South Rim, stay at Phantom, do the Ribbon Falls hike for a lazy day - do the Clear Creek/Cheyva Falls hike for another lazy day and then non corridor my way out of the canyon heading back up to the South Rim.

So in a nutshell it seems like I would be better off doing this adventure in the beginning of May heat wise - is it a one dayish hike down grandview to Horse shoe to PR???? Or I am total toast finding a one day in and out avoiding the corridor trails???

Thanks for the on line order tip Hip - tho even when I was there in 2011 I didn't bother to get "the shirt"!!

[chumley]

I really do not want to camp. I would rather go light - I would like to pitch off the South Rim, stay at Phantom, do the Ribbon Falls hike for a lazy day - do the Clear Creek/Cheyva Falls hike for another lazy day and then non corridor my way out of the canyon heading back up to the South Rim.

Your only options are SK and BA. Otherwise you are camping or enduring a minimum 20 or 24 mile dayhike. Period.

[BobP]

do the Clear Creek/Cheyva Falls hike for another lazy day

If thats a lazy day...you are a beast. :wlift: I night hiked that in April under a full moon and it was hotish coming back.

[KwaiChang]

do the Clear Creek/Cheyva Falls hike for another lazy day

If thats a lazy day...you are a beast. :wlift: I night hiked that in April under a full moon and it was hotish coming back.

Never have done a night hike.....I gather it is kinda cool in that you would certainly "see" more wildlife.....

[nonot]

do the Clear Creek/Cheyva Falls hike for another lazy day

If thats a lazy day...you are a beast. :wlift: I night hiked that in April under a full moon and it was hotish coming back.

Never have done a night hike.....I gather it is kinda cool in that you would certainly "see" more wildlife.....

Based on your description of your abilities, the wildlife you may be seeing on this dayhike will be the coyotes and vultures knawing on your dead body. From Phantom, this "lazy day" hike is about 26 miles round trip, with about 6 of those being off trail.

You may want to do a bit more research.

The only trails from the south rim to get to Phantom Ranch in a day, for a reasonable itinerary, involve doing at least some portions of Bright Angel and South Kaibob. There are two reasonable trails from the north rim. Everything else is unreasonable in a day, not that some won't attempt it. For a vastly experienced hiker, the Newton Butte Route is at least plausible. Of course, that still puts you on having to do the lower half of the South Kaibob, unless you do the Miner's route, which still puts you doing a half mile or so on Bright Angel.

A dayhike from Phantom Ranch to see Ribbon Falls is a reasonable dayhike. A dayhike from Phantom Ranch to see Chevaya Falls is not a reasonable dayhike, not that some won't attempt it (e.g. Grandpa Bob).

[azbackpackr]

From what I've heard Cheyava Falls almost never has any water in it anyway, so why bother? A friend of mine went there during spring runoff one year, and even then it had no water in it.

[Hippy]

Let me know when you plan to attempt and complete your lazy day hike, I'm good friends with grand canyon SAR

Really though, corridors your best bet. But here's a tip, mule trains go DOWN bright angel and UP south Kaibab and they head UP the latter around 8AM
Its not hard to avoid them with that bit of knowledge. I'm on both trails all the time and have only seen em twice...

Save yourself the energy and SAR bill, stick to the norms or pick a new destination.
Have fun, be safe!!

[azbackpackr]

Or, get yourself some super ultralight backpacking gear. I'd hate to be stuck hiking the Corridor all the time! I seem to recall you had heavy gear when you went last time? Check out these guys. Some of them have pack lists on their profile pages.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2925&start=0&hilit=SUL+ultralight

Of course, this is partly to remind myself that over the next year I hope to switch out some of my own stuff. For me, on a budget, it'll take time. I have already switched out some things. I was able to hike the Canyon for 4 days, with food and a good amount of water, carrying about 30 pounds.

[KwaiChang]

Based on your description of your abilities, the wildlife you may be seeing on this dayhike will be the coyotes and vultures knawing on your dead body. From Phantom, this "lazy day" hike is about 26 miles round trip, with about 6 of those being off trail. LOL! Whoops!! OK - no Cheyva Falls - just Clear Creek

You may want to do a bit more research. Thats why I asked you nice folks here who have BEEN on the trails what my options are! And I get the BEST answers!

A dayhike from Phantom Ranch to see Ribbon Falls is a reasonable dayhike. A dayhike from Phantom Ranch to see Chevaya Falls is not a reasonable dayhike, not that some won't attempt it (e.g. Grandpa Bob). See what kills me is that I get told all the time that some hike/trail is going to be real hard and what not - it usually ends up being kinda easy for me - not trying to brag cuz I KNOW there are some hikes/trails out there just awaiting to lay me on my fanny - but so far the little bit I have encountered it did not live up to it's OMG your are crazy to do this factor...some of us are natural hikers I suppose - I know plenty o folks who would NEVER hike with me - and likewise I know who not to hike with!