Hell's Gate-memorial day weekend trip

[pfredricks]

Does anyone have any interest in a 3 day 2 night memorial day weekend trip?? I personally dont have a destination picked out, but, would like to do a trip that weekend. Anyone?
Thanks
Pete

[hikeaz]

Hi,
Friend's Hiking Club is hiking/canyoneering Tonto Creek over Memorial Day.
This is going to make a terrific long w/e getaway.
We'd likely need 3+ to 4 days, though.
"Tonto Creek is a massive drainage in the heart of the Mogollon
Rim country. After heavy rains, it can flow up to 60,000 cubic feet per second
(the Grand Canyon's average flow is 10,000) As you might imagine, a
stream with this much potential can cut a rather impressive gorge; and
Tonto Creek has done just that. Polished bedrock of Granite and Ryolite
frames the creek, sometimes constricting it into pools 20 feet deep.You
will feel as if you are in another world here.

Hellsgate Trail #37 will be the start.... we'll take it to the
confluence of Tonto & Haigler creeks.We'll head downstream in the
creekbed, and wet, for the next 17 miles where we exit @ Gisela. We will swim a MINIMUM of 11 pools.
There are several sections of narrows along Tonto creek, each with its own character.
We'll need to leave a vehicle(s) at Gisela for the end of the trip,and
then head up on the rim to access the trailhead.( 1.5 hrs. tops)

A gal that I've rafted with, Pepita, did this by herself last spring, and highly recommends it.
Her reply to my email requesting data is below....

"Kurt,
It took me 3.5 full days to get in and out of the canyon . I think there
is only one major canyon that is an option for exploration, I did not go up
it much as I was pushing to get out, due to unexpected rains. My hike
started after the shuttle effort and so I started about 10:00 am .
It is a half day hot hike into the canyon but well worth it with nice swimming
holes at the bottom as well as camping areas there and shortly
down canyon. As you know, I went by myself so camping spots were pretty easy to
find. It was hard to know when they would arrive though, as a lot of the canyon is
narrow with no camping areas. I hiked the other days from sun up to sun
down, its slow going with no trail, swimming among boulders and
boulder hopping for the rest of the way on land until you are out of the canyon.
The boulders are granite and very slippery, especially when your
shoes are wet from swimming. I know you are a fast hiker. I am a slow
boulder hiker, something to consider with your other hiking companions.
However, it's a beautiful and exciting hike and well worth doing.
You know Tyler, who wrote Canyoneering Arizona; he hiked it in 2.5 days and he
has a fitness level more comparable to you.
Pep "

[jimserio]

Friend's Hiking Club is hiking/canyoneering Tonto Creek over Memorial Day.

This sounds extremely interesting. I'm still looking for one overnight trip during May (between Spring and Summer semesters).

Jim

[CindyC]

I have done that. It was awesome. Never a dull moment. It is a route that many outdoor challenge programs use. I highly recommend it.

[jimserio]

Is this route similar in nature to Wet Beaver Creek? Ie. will there be alot of canyoneering and water treading? The reason I ask is that, while I'd love to do it, I have an external frame pack and I can already see problems with extended water treading with this. I could bring a raft I guess.

Coaster

[mttgilbert]

I could bring a raft I guess.

Instead of bringing a raft, why not just pack an air mattress? You can float your pack all day long and then sleep on it all night.

[jimserio]

Good suggestion. I was reading on a site the other day that you can partially inflate your air matress in your pack and the pack will float nicely. Too bad I have an old Z-Rest :-(

Jim

[mttgilbert]

Too bad I have an old Z-Rest :-(

Maybe this is the perfect excuse to upgrade

[Lizard]

Good suggestion. I was reading on a site the other day that you can partially inflate your air matress in your pack and the pack will float nicely. Too bad I have an old Z-Rest :-(

You can also just use garbage bags to protect all your gear (knot them off so a little air is trapped in each bag), along with a few empty water bags, inflated. This is enough to float a pack. Although, when I did this the bag submerged a bit and some of my gear got damp. Nothing big, but still. If I had used thicker garbage bags I think I wouldn't have had any problems at all.

An air mattress is preferable as it holds your pack above the water. Your gear is less likely to get wet. You can buy a cheap air mattress from Wal-Mart for less that ten dollars. It will be trashed by the end of a long canyoneering trip, but it will most likely suffice for the length of the trip as long as you stop every once in awhile to blow more air into it.

Lizard

[pfredricks]

The Hell's gate trip sounds perfect. Count me in.

[hikeaz]

As a clarification.....
The plan is to leave the Valley Fri. and camp at the T/H on Friday PM.
Sat. AM head down to Tonto Creek & continue until we choose to camp.
Sun. AM..... repeat
Mon. AM .....repeat
I'd say that we'd be out late on Monday, but things happen.... so I'd hope that everyone could secure Tues. as a day off, as well, just in case. That way, if we get out Monday, you can still have the option of working on Tuesday, if you so choose.

I'd recommend using trash compactor bags, over regular garbage bags; sealing one, and then inserting THAT bag into another, and sealing IT as well. Or, if you have one, a Boundary Bag works great. see http://www.sierratradingpost.com

Coaster, I have an extra internal frame pack that you can use (holds 4300 ci. +/-)

Thanks,
Kurt

[mttgilbert]

I was just down at the local Army-Surplus store and I found something that might interest you guys. They have waterproof bags, designed to aide in crossing water with a gun. They are also designed to be used to float a bag. They have sizes ranging from small enough for a side-arm, to one that covers an entire ALICE existence pack (which is the armys cruel, cruel version of an external frame pack), They are made of coated nylon and seem pretty durable. I have never used them for floatation so I am not sure how well they work, but it would be very hard to snag and rip one like a trash bag.

[jimserio]

Matt,

Which store/location was this?

Coaster

[hikeaz]

Good idea !

When speaking of the trash compactor bags in my prior post.... I was referring to putting them INSIDE of a regular internal frame pack.

[mttgilbert]

Which store/location was this?

Larada's, in Mesa at Extension and Main St.
(a word of advice: try to ask one of the older employees. The kids they hire really have no idea whats what in that store)


Added Later:

I was referring to putting them INSIDE of a regular internal frame pack.

I just pulled out the bag I got, and sure enough it says LINER in big bold print right at the top. so, good idea hikeaz.

[pfredricks]

I could bring a raft I guess.

Instead of bringing a raft, why not just pack an air mattress? You can float your pack all day long and then sleep on it all night.

So, I have a therma rest, I can't expect that such a small air mattress to carry my pack right? HOw can I ensure that my gear stays dry???? I like doing more with less. I dont like the idea of buying another piece of equiptment at this time. Will a thick garbage bag really work???

[mttgilbert]

So, I have a therma rest, I can't expect that such a small air mattress to carry my pack right? Will a thick garbage bag really work???

I have never had a thermarest so I can't speak for its float-ability. You might try a combination of the two. Use the thermarest as a raft and use the garbage bag liner (I think the compacter bags would be far superior to ordinary bags) just in case the t-rest isn't enough.

If you, or a friend, has a pool you could always test it out before you go, then you'll know the dynamics of your floatation system.

[jimserio]

I've never done it before (this will be my first canyoneering experience) but a friend did Wet Beaver Creek and she said they used cheap (light) inflatable pool rafts, along with lining their packs with waterproof bags. I don't care much if my pack gets wet, so long as the contents don't.

In leu of getting a Thermarest (my z-rest works just fine and has been on many a journey with me) I may just pick up a raft. If I test, I'll let you know how it works out.

Coaster

[pfredricks]

I really want to avoid getting my pack wet, as that would add weight that I dont feel like carrying. I want to make the transition from my backpack on my back to floating it in as little time as possible. I could imagine doing that frequently and possibly wasting tons of time. HMPH. I will definitely try the pool thing, great suggestion.
-Pete

[mttgilbert]

I know you don't want to buy new equipment right now but I reall think one of those surplus bags would be your best bet. You could put it over the entire pack, blow in it a little to inflate, tie off the end and float it along with you. If you try that with the garbage bags youre certain to rip it on some rock or tree branch, even with the thicker ones. The surplus bag only cost me about five bucks, so it is a minimal investment.

Added later:

I will test out the surplus bag I got on my backpack later this evening and post the results later tonight or tomorrow. The waterproof bag I got is too small for a full size pack so I will use my daypack. I'll load it up with 15 or 20 pounds just to see what it can take. I'll keep you posted.