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East Webber via Geronimo, AZ

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Guide 27 Triplogs  3 Topics
Rated  Favorite Wish List AZ > Payson > Payson N
3.8 of 5 by 15
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Difficulty 3.5 of 5
Route Finding 3 of 5
Distance Round Trip 10.45 miles
Trailhead Elevation 5,400 feet
Elevation Gain 1,203 feet
Accumulated Gain 2,088 feet
Avg Time Round Trip 6 - 7 hours
Kokopelli Seeds 20.89
Backpack Yes & Connecting
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Photos Viewed All Mine Following
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14  2017-05-20
Highline - Rim View Fail - Webber - Donahue
17  2014-07-19 hikerdw
15  2013-08-13 guyinthewoods
76  2013-08-04 Droog
18  2013-07-12 Tough_Boots
26  2013-07-12 Grasshopper
9  2012-08-04
East Webber / BSA Rimview Loop
15  2012-08-04
East Webber / BSA Rimview Loop
Page 1,  2,  3
Author joebartels
author avatar Guides 213
Routes 824
Photos 10,825
Trips 4,259 map ( 21,438 miles )
Age 49 Male Gender
Location Phoenix, AZ
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Trailhead Forecast
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Preferred   Oct, Sep, Jun, May → 8 AM
Seasons   Spring to Autumn
Sun  6:13am - 6:24pm
Official Route
5 Alternative
Fauna Nearby
Flora Nearby
Meteorology Nearby
Named place Nearby
Culture Nearby
by joebartels

Likely In-Season!
Overview: Out-n-back hike to the origin of Weber Creek via Geronimo trailhead. 0.15mi south & west on Highline Trail #31. North about 2.75mi on Geronimo Trail #240. Continue northeast on East Webber Trail #289 about 1.9mi.

Hike: If you're hooked on lush creekside hikes this might leave you with a sour taste. In order to sink your teeth into the sweet nectar of upper Webber Creek (without a STEEP downclimb) you must conquer Geronimo! Geronimo Trail #240 that is... please read Mike's summary. As Mike mentions, the trail systems here are highly entwined with jeep roads. So if you're not into hiking jeep roads then stop reading. I would like to add I did not encounter any jeeps or anybody for that matter. I did encounter a pack of skinny turkeys. The pines are big and healthy. Additionally, nice views of the rim (few get to see) made it worthy of my time. However, I wouldn't drive great distances just for trail #240... no-sir-ree-bob.

I highly recommend downloading the GPS Route I have supplied or you'll risk entering the BSA camp. About 3 miles into the hike you'll be on a real (non-road) trail. Here on you'll be crossing the creek every now and then but rarely do you follow the creek until the very end. Unfortunately some of the canyon has been scorched by wildfire. As of this writing the dead pines are still providing shade. Most of the cascades are tiny. Pleasing creek views get better as you progress.

At one point you cross a creek twice without crossing back. The first of which is Patton Spring Draw(3.55mi). Never fear you are still on track. Further on you pass a field of lichen boulders. At 4.5mi comes one of the main feeder springs. It gurgles out of the opposing bank in rich green flora. This spring appears to be over 50% of the flow making up Webber Creek.

Turn back now and live without reason. It's only a quarter mile to the grand finale. The true spring of origin trickles down deep-brown rock slabs. Return as you came or a rude route continues up the rim for a shuttle.

Check out the Official Route and Triplogs.

Leave No Trace and +Add a Triplog after your hike to support this local community.

2007-08-19 joebartels
    WARNING! Hiking and outdoor related sports can be dangerous. Be responsible and prepare for the trip. Study the area you are entering and plan accordingly. Dress for the current and unexpected weather changes. Take plenty of water. Never go alone. Make an itinerary with your plan(s), route(s), destination(s) and expected return time. Give your itinerary to trusted family and/or friends.

    Most recent of 19 deeper Triplog Reviews
    East Webber via Geronimo
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    Highline - Rim View Fail - Webber - Donahue
    Me and my squad of one, launched from the Pine TH on a glorious Saturday morning.

    This was my first time on this portion of the re-routed Highline #31, since starting the AZT in 2010. It was a clear and pleasant jaunt all the way to the Geronimo TH on this well manicured track. One AZ Black buzzworm woke us up about 5 miles in, sunning itself in the trail. We lounged in the shade by the babbling Webber Creek before continuing on the Highline.

    The plan was to loop on the Rim View Trail - BSA, using a 4 year old @Grasshopper/ @Tough_boots track. It started out easy enough following the trail and metal poles. This was probably some scouts work for a merit badge. I don't think it's seen any love since it completion. 1 mile in, we lost the poles and any sign of a trail. We searched higher than the track and found one last pole. In shorts and wasting time with 3ish miles left into the unknown, we retreated.

    The Highline back to Gerinimo #240 and the to the gem of the hike, East Webber #289. The forest is beautifully thick with maples. As an added treat, the creek was running up to and past where this trail meets up with the BSA Milk Ranch Trail. After this intersection, the trail gets...steep. We bagged the top a bit after 5pm.

    First time on the Donahue #27. Clear and OK up top, gets a bit tight and rocky at the bottom. It was good to be back on the Highline superhighway to the TH.

    Great weather in the Rim country made this a good one for me.
    East Webber via Geronimo
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    Got in a nice quickie camp trip and hike. We drove up Saturday late afternoon and had dinner at THAT Brewery up in Pine, first time there. Good food, and beer selections were awesome, we got the sampler to try out a few different kinds. We found a great car camp spot along FR 440 about a mile before the trailhead and setup a fairly spartan camp since it was just a quick overnight. Sunday morning we loaded up and headed for the Geronimo TH, we got started a bit after 8. Geronimo trail is nice, good gain but never too steep. We saw about 2 dozen elk along the way, most were up closer to Webber creek. The Webber trail was a bit overgrown but nothing too bad, I did count about 15 downed logs along the way to step over or around. Once we got close to the creek there was a feeling like Narnia would be right around the corner, it was reminiscent of my trips up to the Pacific Northwest with pines, spruce, ferns, and berry bushes all over the place. We made the junction with the BSA Rim View trail and started making the trip up. I had read in previous descriptions that this was not completed yet, I guess I was hopeful it would be in better condition since it has been a few years. We found the way up OK, thin trail but there was occasional tags in the trees to guide us. Once we reached about 6300' the trail completely disappeared, and we were basically doing the bushwhack on a fairly steep slope. My partner was none too pleased about this course, and the going was slow. We were planning to bail from the trail and find a way down just as the trail came back and was actually pretty nice. We did divert down the BSA Lower Miller trail since we were short on time to do the whole loop at this point. The Lower Miller trail was great, especially compared to what we had been on...the only bad thing was that the trail put us right on the back door to the Boy Scout camp. We tried to skirt the camp as best as we could, but it seems like we kept getting pulled back in. Thankfully there was no one there that we saw, and we made our way back to the forest boundary without incident. The berry bushes at the TH were fairly picked over, so we just had a victory brew and headed back home. Great area I have never been to before!

    Some Indian Paintbrush blooming, and the berry vines had some color too.
    East Webber via Geronimo
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    Nice loop hike. Used the data posted by Grasshopper, Tough_Boots, and John9L to plan this hike. The cloud cover kept the temps tolerable. I knew there were two ways to access the Rim View Trail, an old and new, we took the old route. A little bit of route finding and dead fall to climb over but not too bad. Great views on the Rim View Trail as you might expect by the name. Had an early lunch at one of the springs that feeds East Webber, very cool area. Wore low cut hikers which worked but I was wishing I would have wore my higher boots for better ankle protection. Also, left my hiking staff at the truck leaned against the tire which I would have liked to have with me. Luckily someone saw it and tossed it in the truck bed; thanks!

    Berry report: Slim pickins and of the ripe ones found they were not real plump, although they still tasted pretty good :D
    East Webber via Geronimo
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    When I hiked Turkey trail #217 a couple weeks ago, I had some great views from the top of Milk Ranch point all the way over to East Webber creek as I looked across to the canyon down below. I remember thinking that the area really looked like it was worth checking out, so fast forward to this morning and we hit the trail at a little past 8am after parking at Geronimo trailhead. The first couple miles on #240 were boring, as expected, but things started to get nicer once we got to the start of East Webber trail. It was a pretty warm & sunny day, so the numerous stream crossings provided lots of opportunities to splash some cold water on our faces.

    The way up was mostly a gradual climb through the ferns and blackberries. Things started to get badly overgrown pretty quick, and the thorny berry bushes lining the trail were worse than any catclaw I've ever waded through. The vines were drooping across the trail at face height, which made for slow travel as the trail continued past the "swimming hole" into the denser undergrowth. At about the 4.75 mile mark we lost the trail completely, and decided to head back.

    Just a bit after turning around, we chose to head up a pink-ribboned spur trail heading to the north that I noticed on the way up. I was glad we did, because it led right to a spring that was gushing cold water right from the bottom of a cool looking cliff. I'm not sure what this spring is called, I can't find it on any of the forest service maps that I have.

    In the future I'd like to attempt the BSA Rim View loop over to Highline, but the fact that there seem to be 2 different junctions for the Rim View trail left me a bit confused about which is the correct trail. I use the term "trail" loosely here because at both intersections it didn't look like there was much of a path to follow at all.
    East Webber via Geronimo
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    We arrived only to be confronted by a boy scout camp in the direction we wished to go. I read that the Geronimo trail was not very exciting so I figured we would just drive to the East webber trail head. I must have missed the part about the private boy scout camp in between. We parked and headed up the hill by the sign. There seemed to be a three way split and we knew that to the right was the wrong way. We started up the hill where I saw my first wild tarantula. I think it was a male Arizona Blond. We skirted the creek and camp the way up. There did seem to be a pretty good trail most of the way on this side for most of the way. About 2.5 miles in we hooked up with the webber creek trail. There were raspberries everywhere. We passed the camp and started up the canyon pretty steadily but not so much it slowed us down. This is where we spotted our second set of Elk. They bolted before I could get my camera ready. We continued along the trail for a good while and came to a split with signs on the ground. One said webber creek and the other Rim View. I think we would have had better luck on the rim view trail. East webber creek continued bobbing back and forth until it came to a bolder hopping section. From here there was no apparent trail and everything poked. We made it a few hundred feet and the decision to wear shorts determined this was the end of the line. Grapes and Raspberries as far as we could see but no trail. We turned around and this is where we made our mistake. Somehow we ended up coming through the fence into the camp n the way back. A nice man reminded us that we were trespassing but let us use the road which saved us plenty of time. I would like to make it back out here and try to make it up to the rim again. There were at least three trucks of people before we left gathering raspberries by the parking lot.
    East Webber via Geronimo
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    After moving to the Phoenix area for my retirement in year 2004, one of my first spring and summer hiking areas north of Phoenix that I frequented was this Tonto NF area below our Mogollon Rim just southeast of Pine, AZ, hiking out-of the convenient access "Geronimo TH". Between April'06 and April'07 I returned to this area five times (a couple of times with topohiker) and other times solo to just enjoy the solitude and lush beauty of this higher elevation area with multiple hiking trails to choose from.

    From summer 2007 to the present, I started venturing out to other Arizona and out-of-state hiking areas and just lost touch with my favorite hike out of the Geronimo TH- the "East Webber Trail #289". As the years passed from 2007, I continued to follow other HAZ member posts for this Trail #289 and was sad to hear that due to this lush, riparian areas continuing overgrowth/tree downfall with lack of trail maintenance through the years, that no HAZer had been able to successfully post a complete out and back Trail #289 trip log/photoset/GPS Route for other hikers to consider.

    After returning from my June'13 one week vehicle camping and hiking trip on our upper Mogollon Rim and with my need to cancel my previously planned one week July return visit, I started re-thinking past good memories, and I recalled that our HAZ- tough_boots(Kyle) also enjoyed hiking this lower Mogollon Rim trails area. He and I made contact and almost immediate plans to visit this area again and to attempt a successful hike of the entire East Webber Trail #289 out and back.

    Our successful hike this day was very rewarding and with Kyle's detailed (with trail conditions) trip log, our both now posted "official" GPS Routes to download/follow, and my attached geocoded photoset with detailed reference captions and tag notes, hopefully we can entice those interested and qualified who have not before considered this area, to give this hike a try! I do believe that John9L summed it up best with his comment on Kyle's trip log:
    John9L wrote:This is a great area :)

    Also, as an added bonus for those interested in all the hiking trail options available in this area, with help from our HAZ- "Route Manager", I have complied the following "official" GPS Route-Hiking Trails summary with all "key" Way Points noted for our future reference and download as required.. This hiking area has a lot to offer :D
    East Webber via Geronimo
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    Hank and I both wanted to get all the way out to the spring at the end of East Webber. The only problem, though, is that the last stretch of trail has been overgrown and mostly gone for a few years since the boyscouts have stopped doing maintenance that far-- they seem to be putting all their efforts into finishing the Rimview Trail.

    We got an early start and hit the trails. On the drive up, I had begun to hope the berries were in season and ready to eat but was disappointed that the ones close to the trailhead were still green. Luckily further down the trail, they were perfect for eating and we got free snacks all day long.

    We made pretty good time on the dull stretch that takes you past the boyscout camp and made our way to the East Webber Trail. Once hitting the lush area, we quickly saw something interesting. The boyscouts are re-routing the Rimview Trail. It used to begin much further down the East Webber Trail. They have a new sign up but it warns hikers that it is under construction and not to use it. 9L and I had taken the Rimview last year from its original starting point so I knew that the stretch closest to the Highline was well maintained but near East Webber it is a mess. I look forward to them finishing the new route and can't wait to explore it on another hike. This new East Webber-Highline Loop is going to be a fantastic new option.

    Hank and I eventually made it to the old East Webber / Rimview junction. This is where we knew the going would get tough. Instantly, the trail is swallowed up. We slowly made our way through the brush-- avoiding sharp blackberry bushes and looking for old wood-cuts. We looked for any signs of old trail. There were sections where the old trail was easy to follow but those would soon disappear and we'd work to find the route again. The most important thing to watch out for is the big drainage that comes in from the right-- you don't want to accidentally follow that one.

    Well, we made it to the spring. Its a beautiful area and well worth the effort. We stopped and ate lunch to refuel. Bad weather started looming in the distance so we decided to head back and hopefully we'd be done bushwacking before we got rained on. The rain hit just before we found easy trail again so our timing was good. We quickly headed back to the trailhead. Small bits or lightning was a little unsettling but I don't think anything was too close. It was mostly the mud that became an issue-- the kind that sticks to your boots and weighs you down. The rain stopped and we made it back to the trailhead. It was a great hike and hopefully the first of many with Hank-- I think that new Rimview is definitely going to be in the future sometime :)
    East Webber via Geronimo
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    East Webber / BSA Rimview Loop
    Kyle has been talking about this Boy Scott trail for a while now. Today was the day we had a look see. Our hike started at the Geronimo Trailhead around 9am. We headed west on the Highline and then turned north on the Geronimo Trail. After a bit we picked up the East Webber Trail. This was my favorite part of the hike. This section is beautiful! You also hike parallel to Webber Creek. The sound of the creek added to the beauty!

    As we neared the end of East Webber the trail started to become overgrown. We continued on and within a few minutes we hit the creek again and saw the ribbons. This is the start of this Boy Scott trail. We got our route finding caps on and started following. The trail quickly gains elevation and there are lots of ribbons to follow. The trail is in good condition at this point. We continued on and saw a sign for "Rim View". This part gains steady elevation and it eventually leveled out at a shaded clearing. Kyle and I had our lunch here. This appears to be the turnaround point for most Boy Scotts.

    After eating lunch we continued following the ribbons. Right from the start the trail becomes much more difficult to follow. The area is covered in thick Manzanita and a lot of the ribbons were lying on the ground and half buried. Our pace slowed as we struggled to find the route. The Manzanita patch doesn't last too long thankfully. Next we found ourselves hiking along a ravine. This is where things get very challenging. The ribbons are spaced out and there is tons of dead fall in the way. We made slow time as worked our way over and around. After a few minutes we noticed there were no more ribbons. We had a look around and couldn't locate another one. It appeared the trail continued so we kept on following our general direction. It became obvious we were on very good game trails. We decided to keep going and to slowly make our way downhill. After considerable effort and slipping and sliding, we got lucky and found a stake that is used for a trail marker. We then spotted a ribbon and found ourselves back on track!

    The next mile or two were fairly moderate travel. There was plenty of work winding in and out of washes but the trail is well marked and well-traveled. Our going was easy and we eventually connected to the Highline Trail. From there we slugged down the Highline and made our way back to the jeep and then back to Phoenix.

    This was an interesting hike and I'm glad we did it. I doubt I would ever do it again unless they clean up that dead fall section. This trail has serious potential and epic views! I would recommend it to those looking for a nice challenge. The mileage came in under 10 miles but trust me the effort blows that number away!
    East Webber via Geronimo
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    East Webber / BSA Rimview Loop
    So glad I finally got to do this one and it didn't suck like I thought it would. I've done East Webber quite a few times and this was a good reason to go back again. The first time I did East Webber, I explored a bit up the BSA Rimview but it quickly disappeared after the first steep climb. My mole in the Boy Scouts told me back in the winter that the scouts had since finished flagging the Rimview Trail last summer. I've been waiting all year to be the first HAZer to complete this loop.

    My mole had shown me a map of the trail but I never got the chance to copy it. All I really remembered was what area of the Highline it would descend back down to and that it would mostly just ride high on the contours. I wasn't sure how today would go and I'm glad that John was interested in doing this one.

    We headed up East Webber which is awesome as always (and overgrown). The swimming hole was deeper than I've seen it before and there was more water the further upstream we got. We finally hit the BSA Rimview and headed up. This first section I had done before and it's in much better shape than a couple years ago. It seemed like an actual trail which made me hopeful. It's flagged and cleared pretty well at first but then you hit about a quarter or third of a mile where there are no ribbons, blazes, cairnes, markers-- nothin'!

    We bushwacked through and just did what made sense to us and then eventually we started finding markers and ribbons again. Quickly it becomes a real trail again and stays pretty easy to follow all the way to it's intersection with the Highline at Bear Spring. It seems as though the route is done but they must be working on the trail from each end and connecting in the center. They're not quite there yet.

    When this trail is done-- its gonna make this a real nice loop. The views from the Rimview are better than the from the Highline and the amphitheater style rock formations you hike across are really cool. Much of it is being marked with metal poles so the route isn't going to disappear. This trail is worth doing for sure.

    Pretty good wildlife day-- a few deer, elk, a garter snake, and a rattler.
    East Webber via Geronimo
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    Pine Webber Loop
    Parked up top off of 87, crossed through the fence and parked .2 mile down at the TH.
    The area took a lot of rain on this day and I was still able to get my 2 Wheel drive up and out with no problem at the end of the day (Phew).

    We made our way down the Pine Trail with its sweet views, having the place all to ourselves. We saw a King Snake and shortly there after the quiet in the canyon was gone for a bit. We passed 2 separate Church groups of young ladies (30-40 each).

    The East Rim Trail was next up....and I do mean UP. There were spots where I was on all fours going up. This trail is less than .75 miles long and gains +1,100 feet in that time. There are some great views on the way up. Towards the top there is a Boulder/Rock climbing section that's fun.

    This trail ends up top and you then follow occasional metal blazes on trees to get out to FR9283L. Now that we have that climbing out of the way, a short walk up top on Milk Ranch Point it was down on West Webber Trail, Milk Ranch Point Trail and met up with the Geronimo Trail. The forest on the way down is very thick and lush. Looks like the fall colors would be incredible.

    Geronimo was my least favorite. It's an old road affording little shade from the sun.

    East Webber was real nice for awhile. Once you get past the downed BSA Rim Trail sign, It is near impossible, to impossible to follow. What was a trail has been covered with blood stealing 5' tall raspberry type bushes. We trudged on for a bit making almost no headway, finally giving up once the rain started coming down at a heavier pace.

    A short lunch in the drizzle and then we were off, trudging back down the muddy Gerinimo sporting our 5 pound shoes. Hiking back up West Webber, the rain had finally stopped. We took a break at the top to change into dry socks. Wrong call as the rain started again.

    We had 3 miles of road walking on FR218 which drug on forever. I'd drawn up a route off of FR218, back to the truck which would short cut across the north rim of Pine Canyon. It used some old FR's and some bushwhacking. It should lend some good sunset views. One problem with that plan... it's now after 8pm, it's dark, raining, so no sunset views and all I have are my prescription sunglasses with me. So the glasses are off and I'm hiking blind. Also the roads in places were not there anymore and were replaced with prickly locust trees...

    We made the right decision and made our way over to the long way back on a more established trail... FR 300 to SR87 2.5 miles to the truck.

    Always an adventure
    JBM was all over the map

    Permit $$

    Map Drive
    FR / Dirt Road / Gravel - Car Okay

    To hike
    From Payson head north towards the town of Pine on AZ87. It's about 12 miles to just past mile marker 265 and take a right on the Control Road. Follow the dirt Control Road for about 6 miles to a signed left for Geronimo Trailhead (Webber Creek). It's about 2 miles to the apparent trailhead with room for about five vehicles. The hike starts immediately crossing the creek.
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