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This is likely a great time to hike this trail!  Check out "Prefered" months below, keep in mind this is an estimate.

West Webber #228 to Geronimo #240, AZ

no permit
16 23 3
Guide 23 Triplogs  3 Topics
Rated  Favorite Wish List AZ > Payson > Payson N
3.8 of 5 by 6
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Difficulty 3.5 of 5
Route Finding 1 of 5
Distance Round Trip 4.1 miles
Trailhead Elevation 7,215 feet
Elevation Gain -1,525 feet
Accumulated Gain 1,555 feet
Avg Time Round Trip 3 hours
Kokopelli Seeds 11.88
Backpack Yes & Connecting
feature photo
Photos Viewed All Mine Following
9  2019-07-06
Geronimo Turkey Milk
8  2018-09-02
Geronimo-Turkey-West Webber
4  2017-07-08
Milk Ranch Point Loop
6  2017-07-04
Pine Canyon / Geronimo Loop
9  2016-07-29
Milk Ranch Point Loop
9  2015-10-12
Milk Ranch Point Loop
8  2015-09-05
Pine Canyon / Geronimo Loop
14  2015-08-16
Milk Ranch Point Loop
Page 1,  2
Author joebartels
author avatar Guides 213
Routes 824
Photos 10,812
Trips 4,252 map ( 21,403 miles )
Age 49 Male Gender
Location Phoenix, AZ
Historical Weather
Trailhead Forecast
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Preferred   Sep, May, Oct, Jun → NOON
Seasons   Spring to Autumn
Sun  6:08am - 6:34pm
Official Route
5 Alternative
Fauna Nearby
Flora Nearby
Named place Nearby
Culture Nearby
Kari Momiji
by joebartels

Likely In-Season!
Aside from Autumn, timing and direction of travel will factor into your experience. This isn't a creekside hike, it's a gift from the maple gods.

The trailhead seems somewhat obscured but didn't really prove to be difficult to locate. You immediately head into the forest to conquer the slightest hill rise before reaching the rim at 0.28mi. This is a very light-use trail that might be difficult to follow at night. Unlike the Mogollon Rim most experience at US-260 the views here are blocked by solid tree cover.

Heading down you can't help but think of how painful it will be climbing back up. In reality the trail is laid out very well. (see elevation profile) Fear not, it's just a mind game. A few nice views open up on the switchback turns. The trail is surprisingly shady. I passed a nice patch of Bigtooth Maples which always gets my adrenalin kickin thinking of a red Arizona Autumn. As it turns out this whole mountain pocket caressed by Milk Ranch Point is loaded with maples. This place must be blazing like an inferno in full Autumn foliage.

There's a thorned vine ground cover of sorts I spent several hours (unsuccessfully) trying to identify. The leaves look like wild raspberry but it's a smooth distinct thorny vine as opposed to hairy-prickly. It's stems are more of a fluorescent green then dark green which makes me believe it grows fast. I'm leaning towards rose of some sort for now. At any rate, this stuff is thick in places. It grows down in the lower elevations near the creek but the mind boggling part is it grows in the upper reaches too. There must be a lot of underground moisture. One thing for sure, it hurts like a mother in sandals if you trip through it! (update, I believe it's baneberry)

After the switchbacks ease up you come to a post at 0.78mi. As of this writing there was no sign, just a post. A left is the continuation West Webber #228 directly to Turkey Spring, 1.1mi. As of this writing that portion of trail is rough to follow with downed trees and debris. Keep right on the better maintained trail and continue.

Further down you will find some very large Gambel Oaks and Bigtooth Maples. With so much of Arizona subjected to wildfires over the past decade (including very nearby) I'm grateful to witness some old growth. The trail only comes to the edge of a seasonal creek once in it's journey. There was a trickle flow in this relatively "active" monsoon season which probably means it's normally dry. I did see a flex pipe that appeared to have been tapped into a spring long ago. It appears to be an abandoned working for whatever cause.

The trail rarely levels out keeping a fairly constant incline from top to bottom. At 1.76mi comes a makeshift bridge. It spans maybe eight feet over a ravine that's cutting through rock-free earth quickly. If it decays or washes away you'll have to negotiate the ravine. For a short section the shade gives. I was reminded August is a furnace in Arizona, thankfully it was short lived. Just before the trail connects with Geronimo Trail #240 it widens up into an old extremely rutted jeep road. The only sign as of this writing was a long narrow sign reading "Milk <- Ranch <- Point <- West".

Most would likely do this as a loop with Turkey Springs Trail or a longer loop on the flip side of the mesa. Coming down I was in la la land but wanted to experience the flip side perspective going up. I was somewhat luckily with afternoon shade and a passing cloud now and then, coupled in with a breeze or two. Heading up I felt the hike is less complete without a flowing creek. If I had only hiked this trail in a loop going up I wouldn't think much of it. Starting at the top I'm pretty much hooked and will be back. The creek although non perennial pack a wallop of flora and deserves attention. I explored some of the easier lower sections saving the upper explosion for Autumn!

Check out the Official Route and Triplogs.

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2007-08-21 joebartels
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WARNING! Hiking and outdoor related sports can be dangerous. Be responsible and prepare for the trip. Study the area you are entering and plan accordingly. Dress for the current and unexpected weather changes. Take plenty of water. Never go alone. Make an itinerary with your plan(s), route(s), destination(s) and expected return time. Give your itinerary to trusted family and/or friends.

Most recent of 13 deeper Triplog Reviews
West Webber #228 to Geronimo #240
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Milk Ranch Point Loop
We started from Red Rock Springs TH and did this loop CCW, I have only done it the other way. Getting the Highline section done early was the aim. Humidity was certainly a factor during the earlier hours, though. Once we reached Geronimo the stream of trail runners would begin. We breaked along West Webber Creek, below Turkey Spring. Had a snack and replenished my water supply that dwindled surprisingly fast. The stroll through old Pine and Maples, dotted with raspberries along the creek, was it's usual delightful self. Before the climb up the rim, we stopped and chatted with some of the trail runners, and let them go ahead of us. The climb up on West Webber was enjoyable. Switch backs and shade was all we could ask for, and we would eventually catch the crew of runners and start down Donahue together after the brief road walk. Once on the lower, steeper reaches of Donahue and back on the Highline, it was getting warm. Thunder in the distance led to clouds overhead and a break from the sun. By the time we started back down on Red Rock Springs, the big drops started to fall and we would finish out in a downpour mixed with hail. Temps dropped about 20 degrees and we were soaked upon reaching the TH. The cool down was much appreciated. Had a great time in Rim Country today.
West Webber #228 to Geronimo #240
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Milk Ranch Point Loop
Stepped out for one of my favorite Rim Country loops this a.m. Went clockwise, although I'd recommend CCW this time of year. Lots of rocky terrain today, aside from the recently cleared segment of Highline around the Donahue junction. #294 is like a mini Y-Bar. I'd forgotten how much I like Donahue. It offers a nice climb up the rim then flattens out through a pine forest before ending at MRP Rd. West Webber #228 is always the highlight of this loop. There's plenty of shade under those old growth Maple & Oak trees and a reliable water source in the creek. Raspberries are already gone, unfortunately. Spooked a large herd of elk on Geronimo and could later hear them calling to each other for several minutes, which was kind of cool. By the time I jumped on Highline, the 62 degrees I started in was now 90 degrees with nearly zero shade, as much of the Western Highline is. I ended up using a water bottle I picked up off the trail to collect water at Pine Spring to dump on my head. Finished up back at Red Rock Spring TH. Distance of this loop is slightly shorter now due to a Highline/Donahue re-route. Overall it's a great loop that allows you to sample a handful of trails while offering great views, diverse flora, abundant fauna & a lush shaded oasis along West Webber.
West Webber #228 to Geronimo #240
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Milk Ranch Point Loop
Had to take advantage of great weather and hit one of my rim country favorites. It was a tad warmer than I anticipated but the clear, sunny skies made for great views. Every tank, spring and creek had more water present than my previous trip. Enjoyed a nutrition break along Webber Creek. It's still a little early for fall foliage down there and mostly green. Some of the younger Oaks and Maples next to the trail are starting to change. About 2 weeks from now the canyon will begin to light up with reds and yellows, I'll be sure to return then. I saw plenty of elk and even got close to a juvenile grazing near Geronimo. Other than the wildlife, I didn't see a soul on any of the trails all day.
West Webber #228 to Geronimo #240
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The forecast called for perfect weather to knock out a 20-miler. Cool temps and an early morning fog sitting over the rim gave this hike an autumn feel. I like the new route through Pine Canyon. East Rim Trail was it's usual sweat inducing self, although the soil and rocks seemed to be looser this time. I followed Joe's recent route through the locust forest atop MRP and found it much more pleasant than my previous trip. There was even something resembling a trail. There were quite a few hikers and backpackers, more numerous as I got closer to the Pine TH. About a mile West of Red Rock Spring a group of 6 young adults going the opposite direction stopped me to inquire about a spring that might be ahead. All but one was dressed in all black, none had on day packs & were only carrying a liter water bottle each. I informed them the spring was dry and they might want to consider turning around. Pine TH was packed upon my return, with fully automatic gunfire echoing through the canyon. Awesome hike and another beautiful day in Rim Country!

Oak leaves along West Webber Trail were starting to change.
West Webber #228 to Geronimo #240
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Milk Ranch Point Loop
Another late start, another warm hike. It was a sudden and unplanned trip so I went with a familiar loop. Although the extreme heat warning didn't extend to this region, it was by far my hottest rim country hike of the summer. Temps reached 95 degrees and there was no break from the sun. Heading up Donahue I questioned myself once or twice but knew that Webber Creek wasn't far and soon I'd be cooling off. I appreciated every morsel of shade. Once at the creek I found a nice little shaded pool and soaked in it while enjoying an extended nutrition/rehydration break. The creek was lined with coneflowers and columbines. I filtered 3 liters of water and drenched all of my clothes before leaving. I knew the very sun-exposed, mid-afternoon section of Highline I had awaiting me. By the time I reached Pine Spring, it looked like an oasis. Shade, tall green grass and although it's nothing more than a muddy seep covered in elk tracks, I was glad to have found water. Using an empty water bottle, I widened a small trench and funneled water into the bottle to pour over my head and soak my shemagh to keep wrapped around my head and neck. Certainly great views along this segment of Highline, but at the cost of being totally exposed to the sun. After Pine Spring I seemed to have found a 'second wind' and set a good pace I kept up with until I reached the Red Rock Spring TH finish. Overall it was an enjoyable hike. Physically my body responded to the stress of heat and sun better than I could've imagined (other than a few small sunburn spots). I drank 6 liters of water during the hike and was well hydrated before starting out, a decision that paid off well. Although I did hike on an empty stomach until reaching Webber Creek which was probably not a good idea. Didn't see much wildlife today, aside from a lone adolescent white tail. Encountered one other hiker about 1.5 miles in but that was it. Used Route Scout for the first time and all went well. I like that it keeps recording in background and the split stats for every mile. I used this feature as a reminder to slow down a little and not get overheated. I also liked that it notified me when my battery was getting low, cool feature. Hit THAT Brewery for a black bean burger and AZ Trail Ale immediately afterwards to replenish some much needed calories. Another good day in Rim country.
West Webber #228 to Geronimo #240
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Milk Ranch Point Loop
Took advantage of some awesome weather this A.M. and hit one of my favorite Rim Country loops. Started from Red Rock Springs TH (72 degrees) and went in a clockwise direction. Headed up Donahue and across Milk Ranch Rd. to West Webber and down to the creek. This is the most appealing section of this loop because of the lush green environment and the presence of water and wild berries. A group of 4 hikers passed me going the other way as I stopped to gather a handful of raspberries along the creek. I continued onto Turkey Spring before taking a side trail across the creek and meeting up with Geronimo. Next it was back onto Highline. Not my favorite section of this trail terrain wise but the views are great. There isn't much tree cover but the clouds had moved in by then and when coupled with the breeze made this segment of Highline rather enjoyable. Sometime before Pine Spring I spooked a rattler on the trail. Managed to snap a pic as it retreated under a rock. The rest of the hike was uneventful and the home stretch went by quickly. Beautiful day in Rim Country, great hike and all trails were clearly marked and in good shape except for the Red Rock Springs TH where both signs are currently missing.
West Webber #228 to Geronimo #240
rated 5rated 5rated 5rated 5rated 5
Milk Ranch Point Loop
It was a cool, breezy day on the rim so I set out for some trail therapy this a.m. Started at Red Rock Spring TH and decided to do the loop in a clockwise direction, a decision that paid off well I believe. Donahue to Milk Ranch Point seemed to be the steepest section, but the view is incredible the entire way up. Planned on lunching once atop Milk Ranch Point but I was in the zone and didn't stop to eat until right before the Geronimo junction at a spot next to Webber Creek. A deer was nice enough to pose for a picture let me pass while standing just feet from the trail. I ran into 3 small groups of elk once on Geronimo but only one group let me snap a pic. I backtracked up Highline to see the Geronimo TH and sign the log since I seemed to be making decent time. All sections of this loop were in good shape and free of trash. Creeks and tributaries were all flowing due to the rain/snow over the weekend. Didn't see anyone else on the trail all day so that was nice.
West Webber #228 to Geronimo #240
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Milk Ranch Point Loop
Started from the Red Rock Spring trail head to hike this loop in a clockwise direction. I have seen this loop posted several times, most recently by Tough_Boots. A couple observations; although steep, Donahue is a pretty nice trail with some great views, West Webber is a great trail and is in much better shape than the last time I hiked it in 2010.

We saw 5 white tail deer on the top of Milk Ranch Point and had lunch next to a nicely flowing West Webber Creek. Only saw 2 other hikers along the way.

Great time of the year to do this loop.
West Webber #228 to Geronimo #240
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Mike and I started out at the Pine TH and did a longer loop this week. We took the Pine trail to the rim. Along the way we surprised by a black rattler hiding in some rocks :scared: . We warned a group of people coming down with a dog about the snake. We took the Gen. Crook and forest roads over to Milk Ranch point and had lunch at the West Weber trail. We saw about 6~8 people with dogs climbing up the West Weber.

We milled around a bit before heading back on the Highline trail. When the sun dropped, the super moon took over. It was great hiking by moon light until the trees obscured it.
West Webber #228 to Geronimo #240
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Mike and I started the summer hiking season by doing the Pine / East rim / Turkey Spring / Geronimo / Highline loop.

The Pine and Turkey Springs trails have a bunch of new dead fall on it. Nothing too hard to work around.
The only people we saw was two guys in jeans with a rifle on the Geronimo trail.

Permit $$

Map Drive
FR / Jeep Road - Car possible when dry

To hike
Sorry, I forgot to take notes... I'd recommend downloading the GPS Route.

From Payson head north on SR87 through the town of Pine. Continue past the US260 turn off and keep going to the right turnoff for "Rim Road". Follow this a short ?quarter mile to 218A. Take this until it turns into 218. Follow this for (I don't have a clue) 5-7miles? to the trailhead.
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