Scout Backpacking in February

[matthewkphx]

I have volunteered (read: was gently coerced) to be the outdoor coordinator for a Boy Scout Troop here in Phoenix. The troop has a tradition of taking a 3-day backpacking trip every February, alternating between Havasupai and trip to the Superstitions that I don't know the name of (I'm new to the troop, haven't been on that trip).

Last year was Havasupai and as we were planning for this year the boys stated that they did not want to do the Superstition trip again this year. I've been asked to come up with a alternate plan. Here's the specifications:

• Mid-February
• 40-60 people (We have sixty scouts in our troop!)
• Roughly Havasupai length and difficulty
• Nothing too cold (we do snow/winter camping in Janurary)
• Havasupai-like payoff in terms of beauty would be awesome
• Ideally we'd hike in Saturday, day-hike Sunday, hike out Monday but a loop could work too

Any ideas?

Maybe somewhere else in the Canyon (I don't think 4500' of climbing is realistic for many of the boys)?
Aravaipa (too early in February?)

[Tough_Boots]

a group of over 15 is prohibited in many areas of the National Forest, so I'm not sure what kind of options that leaves you with. The Superstitions definitely have a group limit so I don't know if they could have gotten special permission before or just ignored it.

[matthewkphx]

Oh. That's interesting. I'll be checking on that.

[azbackpackr]

You can get large group permits for national forest and other areas, but you'd better look into it early on. And they may limit you to certain areas.

[matthewkphx]

It is good to hear that large group permits are available.

Any thoughts on where we should go?

[azbackpackr]

Search function:

I did a search using "Find" at the top of the page, then I put the month to Feb. and set it for "backpacking" and guessed on miles and AEG (accumulated elevation gain) that you might prefer. As you can see, most are in the Supes. Some may go up to an elevation that is too high for Feb., though. I haven't really used this function before, but you can mess around with it and see what you come up with yourself. If you change the distance and AEG you'll get something different: http://hikearizona.com/traildex.php

I myself know the Tucson area and S. AZ much better. In Feb. with a small Scout troop we used to hike up front range side canyons in the Catalinas and camp. No room for a really big group in those areas, though.

Just out of my memory:

Hiking to Hutch's Pool in the Catalinas might fit the bill, but I don't know if you could get a 60-person permit to do that. http://hikearizona.com/decoder=236

With another troop we were affiliated with we hiked along the San Pedro River in winter, although I have not hiked this entire trail:
http://hikearizona.com/decoder=375
http://hikearizona.com/decoder=1939

My personal preference is to head for the Colorado River area in winter to do kayaking/canoeing. For 60 people you'd need 20 canoes, which are available to rent at Walter's Camp from Desert River Kayaking. Walter's Camp is just south of Palo Verde CA. Desert River Kayaking, out of Bullhead, keeps a lot of canoes there, but will bring you more canoes if needed. Here are a couple of triplogs for multiday trips:
http://hikearizona.com/photoset=28888
http://hikearizona.com/photoset=29821&start=0

[SuperstitionGuy]

Was it the Scouts or Scout leaders that said they do not want to do the Sups again? Where did they go and what did they experience when they were there before? A bad experience perhaps, poor route choices, bad weather, unpreparedness, etc.??

Group size limit is 15 for the Sups and I am not aware of any group getting an exception to this rule since the BSA Varsity debacle at Reavis Ranch in 1983 which was primarily a weather problem and leaders unfamiliar with potential hazards in that area when the weather front includes cold rain and snow.

Young Scouts (11 & 12) should not be doing long backpack treks with heavy packs. Even 13 and 14 year old Scouts not experienced in long hikes and short backpack trips should be expected to handle multiple day long treks of three or more days of backpacking.

A group of 40 to 60 would include all ages and experience levels and for that I agree with Liz that a canoe trip should be considered instead with a plan B in case of bad weather.

Whatever you choose have fun and be safe. My experienced in regards to a large Scout Troop outing.

[matthewkphx]

Thanks for the suggestions in the Catalinas and on the water.

I think Reavis Ranch is where our troop goes in the Supes. I was not aware of the incident there in 1983 but I found a description online.

Maybe I'm overestimating the number of people on the trip. Havasupai was a big group but the hike has a homecoming tradition for the troop: there were lots of adults who were former scouts and/or their parents that hiked in with us and camped separately. Maybe it was more like 15-20 active scouts plus 8 parents. I'm sorry that I overestimated so much in my initial post but I'm glad that I'm now aware of this issue for future backpacking trips.

@Superstitionguy: It was the PLC (youth leadership) that didn't want to do the 'Supes hike this year. I think they are just bored of the tradition and want something new.

[gummo]

Barlett Lake/Verde River (I think it's the Verde River) is okay and easy to follow, since you all be close to water. Plus, they can fish too.

[chumley]

In general, any officially designated wilderness area has a group limit of 15. There are some exceptions. But the Superstitions and Aravaipa are two very popular examples where this rule is broken regularly. However, I don't think it's a good example to set for Boy Scouts.

[joebartels]

Is it a good example to change up from a low key overnight of survival and getting along with fellow scouts to payoffs such as Havasu?

[matthewkphx]

Is it a good example to change up from a low key overnight of survival and getting along with fellow scouts to payoffs such as Havasu?

What do you mean, Joe?

[joebartels]

Havasupai-like payoff in terms of beauty would be awesome

What I took away from scouts was not the places we went, it was the experience.

If they've already been to the Superstitions finding an alternative seems fitting. The three nearest forest around the valley with February options are Tonto, Prescott & Coronado. With the exception of Fossil Creek none of them have oasis payoffs. My mind just goes blank when trying to think of an option that will meet Havasu or the Superstitions. Personally I'd drop that factor and look more at what is available, starting with an elevation range in mind.

Reavis is pretty dang cold at night in February ( 29 degrees average ) being at about 5,000 feet. Aravaipa would be almost ten degrees warmer at 3,000 feet for reference.

8-14 miles roundtrip with about 1,500 feet of accumulated elevation gain in the 3,000 feet camping range would be most optimal. Sounds like they are capable of more, that's just my opinion. Regardless of what you decide, it's good to see a scout leader actively involved in planning ahead.

[matthewkphx]

Thanks, Joe. That makes lots of sense. Thank you for helping me focus on what scouting is about. I'll take this (and a couple trail suggestions) to the PLC and the committee.

[Nighthiker]

Sunflower to Punkin Center along the Camp Reno Road. The area is now closed to motor vehicles and is not located in a wilderness area. First day would be arrival at Sunflower assembly and backpack to Bushnell Tank and spend the night. Next day backpack to the site of Camp Reno and spend the night. Following day short backpack to Punkin Center for pickup and ride home. Hilights could include a presentation of the history and the geology in the evenings.

[matthewkphx]

Whoa. Nice suggestion. I will investigate!

[SuperstitionGuy]

Isn't there also an old military cemetery at Camp Reno that just might need a little cleaning up?