Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

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CannondaleKid
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Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by CannondaleKid » Aug 26 2014 7:44 pm

One would expect it to be safer at a shooting range but I guess this just goes to show you nowhere is safe when inexperienced people have a loaded gun in their hands. What a travesty...
http://news.yahoo.com/instructor-accide ... 54750.html
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outdoor_lover
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by outdoor_lover » Aug 26 2014 10:30 pm

9 Year old Girl with an Uzi....You can try to explain that 100 different ways and I will still never understand...It's not a Travesty, it's a Disaster guaranteed to happen....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming, "Wow What a Ride!"

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wha
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by wha » Aug 26 2014 11:14 pm

Reminds me of the kid who shot himself in the head at a gunshow a few years ago. Also with an Uzi and couldn't control it. There is no reason for kids to be shooting any automatic weapons.

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Bradshaws
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by Bradshaws » Aug 27 2014 4:59 am

The news has been showing the video of this accident. They stop the video just before the instructor is shot. The whole situation is terrifyingly unsafe! It took my breath away....
“ you know what I think?... It doesn’t matter what I think”

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neilends
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by neilends » Aug 27 2014 5:37 am

The gun range reacted to this by expressing sorrow for the "tragic accident," and raising the age minimum for shooters... to 12.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

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satillayakker
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by satillayakker » Aug 27 2014 7:21 am

@CannondaleKid
Sometimes the ranges are the worst........ especially those that are non-supervised/controlled range areas....... That is why I teach my kids on my own property AWAY from careless idiots who have not won the Darwin Award, yet.........

I instruct firearms, weapons handling, marksmanship, tactics, etc. for a living. This guy did many things wrong and seemed to be in a big hurry! First of all, I know MANY adults I would not even attempt to train on an UZI!!!! Second, he had her shoot one round and then somewhat "took the gloves off"!! WHAT!?!?! (And based on the instruction in the video just before, it appears there was little, if any dryfire work done prior.) Third, he did not take precautions most of us take when dealing with teaching ANYONE! He should have stood in a manner to block the gun from recoiling up so excessively. I don't like to monday morning QB, but complacancy is the big offender here. Another likely culprit is the "puppy mill" style gun range. Take the money, "teach" them very quickly, just enough to be dangerous, and let them leave thinking they are great at it now. This girl was vacationing there, so I wonder if that may be part of the picture.........

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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by satillayakker » Aug 27 2014 7:31 am

@neilends
Age is not the issue. It is the gettem' in gettem' out style gun range. My children began learning much younger than that, however, not a freakin UZI!! Their response should be more toward having a safety class and test, dry fire practice, actual weapon handling skills taught, then and only then, single shot marksmanship. Heck, most grown men can't operate an UZI correctly nor proficiently! Granted, each child learns and matures differently, so a 12 yo limit is not bad at all, but there are much bigger issues with this. (I think they would have raised it to 15 if she was 12, so its definitely a pointless action after the fact...) For example, I have taught my son well. He can use a long gun and pistol very safely and very effectively, but there is no freakin way I am putting him on ANY sub machinegun of ANY kind!

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satillayakker
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by satillayakker » Aug 27 2014 7:36 am

The sad part of this is, this little girl is going to remember that for the rest of her life, and think she did something wrong! What could have been a safe (using a smaller, single shot gun) fun experience for her, became what will likely be very traumatic because of something the "expert" failed at.....

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SAMBA
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by SAMBA » Aug 27 2014 7:53 am

Uzi's? WHY?????????????????

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SpiderLegs
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by SpiderLegs » Aug 27 2014 8:02 am

I've got nothing against taking kids to the firing range to shoot something like .22's. Don't own guns, not a gun nut but am sympathetic to people who are. Have other interests that I pursue. But I've taken my kids to a range and rented guns for an hour or so and thought it was fun. No way would I trust my kids with an Uzi, no matter how much training they received. Another instance of parental malpractice.
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SAMBA
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by SAMBA » Aug 27 2014 9:47 am

swamphammock wrote:The sad part of this is, this little girl is going to remember that for the rest of her life, and think she did something wrong!
Not if she worships at the feet of the NRA god, WAYNE LAPIERRE: "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun". Charles Vacca was obviously a "bad man".

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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by outdoor_lover » Aug 27 2014 12:26 pm

swamphammock wrote:Age is not the issue.
Age was almost totally the Issue in this one...The Fact that you put an UZI in the hands of a 9 year old Girl who does not have the strength to hold one, much less control the Recoil on it, was the #1 Issue...And yes, there were other mitigating factors that led to the Instructor's Demise...Total carelessness in putting that Gun in her Hands to begin with, where he stood and how he handled the whole thing...But in the End, her Age coupled with the choice of Weaponry were the main Ingredients that just set up the entire Scenario...There is a lot of blame to go around here...The Judgement of the Parents and the Judgement of the Instructor put that little Girl in an impossible situation...Age...9 years olds simply don't have problem solving skills or the correct "awareness" and comprehension needed, to be safe around Guns whether it was an UZI or a .22...Even if I taught a 9 year old how to shoot a .22 and they could physically handle it, I still certainly would never trust them with one, ever....It's too young, period....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming, "Wow What a Ride!"

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Tough_Boots
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by Tough_Boots » Aug 27 2014 12:52 pm

It sounds like the range wasn't really a range for regular experienced shooters-- it's one of those side of the desert highway "Shoot a REAL Machine Gun" tourist places. I imagine they put uzi's in the hands of so many children that they naturally became careless.
Last edited by Tough_Boots on Aug 27 2014 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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satillayakker
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by satillayakker » Aug 27 2014 1:14 pm

Outdoor Lover wrote:Age was almost totally the Issue in this one
I think you missed my point.
Size and physical characteristics of the person, yes.... age, no... Age may play a factor in who, what, when, where, and how it should be conducted, but age in itself was not the causing factor here. Yes, it is true that anyone in their right mind would know a 9yo could not control an Uzi, or any other sub-machinegun. She was not ready for ANY GUN based on what is seen in the video. This could have happened with anyone of any age with almost no training.
Outdoor Lover wrote:.It's too young, period....
As I stated before, many things should happen before the gun is ever put in their hands, and their has to be immediate supervision. No matter what the age, if the prior training is not conducted and is not comprehended, no one should be using one. Using the age as the factor, rather than physical characteristics and proper training, is the scapegoat.
Outdoor Lover wrote:Age...9 years olds simply don't have problem solving skills or the correct "awareness" and comprehension needed
Not true. Would they be okay being given one and say go practice? NOOO! Can they comprehend and understand training regarding safety? Just as much as most adults. Fast problem solving skills? No. But all that comes with training with ANYONE. As I said, there are very few people any age that should use an UZI.

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satillayakker
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by satillayakker » Aug 27 2014 1:17 pm

SAMBA wrote:Not if she worships at the feet of the NRA god, WAYNE LAPIERRE: "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun". Charles Vacca was obviously a "bad man".
Not a fan of Wayne, but I would much rather "stop a bad guy with a gun" with my gun, and not a knife........ besides, what does that have to do with it?

Mistakes were made that should not have been made by a firearms instructor, period!

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SAMBA
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by SAMBA » Aug 27 2014 1:19 pm

swamphammock wrote:As I said, there are very few people any age that should use an UZI
But is there even one who could tell you WHY they are using an Uzi?

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CannondaleKid
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by CannondaleKid » Aug 27 2014 4:38 pm

swamphammock wrote: This guy did many things wrong and seemed to be in a big hurry! First of all, I know MANY adults I would not even attempt to train on an UZI!!!! Second, he had her shoot one round and then somewhat "took the gloves off"!! WHAT!?!?!
That's what shocked me as well...After only ONE single shot (which didn't seem to faze her too much) so what does the guy do? It appears he steps in and sets it to full auto! and the damage is done.

Now I am first to admit I have no first-hand knowledge of Uzi's but I was under the impression they had three modes of fire: Single shot, three-round burst and full automatic. Does anyone know if this is true?

Further, how easy is it to change modes? Could the guy have bumped it to the wrong mode by accident? Or meant to set it to 3-shot burst (if that was an option) and went too far so it was on full auto?

But in the end, I don't feel anyone but adults should be allowed to handle an Uzi, in fact I see no purpose for them at all, unless they are stored in the local National Guard Armory to be taken out when the Russians, Chinese or North Koreans are parachuting into Arizona. (al la the movie Red Dawn)
And between you and me?... well that just ain't gonna happen in my lifetime.
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chumley
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by chumley » Aug 27 2014 4:45 pm

CannondaleKid wrote:parachuting into Arizona
Guns are like parachutes. If you need one and don't have one you'll probably never need one again!
:)
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neilends
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by neilends » Aug 27 2014 4:50 pm

This seems to depict more of the scene than any other video (short of the actual fatal shot):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfMzK7QwfrU

I think he intentionally set it to automatic, and then told her to fire. So she did, with her little 9-year old hands that have no ability to handle the recoil of an Uzi.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

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satillayakker
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Re: Girl accidentally kills gun instructor

Post by satillayakker » Aug 28 2014 6:06 am

@SAMBA

Not so much in a private sector arena. I can not see it. With all the sensationalism about so-called "assault rifles" and such ( I am not going to even get started on that) and the dubbing of certain semi auto's as "assault", I am all for people owning weapons and the responsible use and "inventory" control of your own weapons. The only problem is, some people should not be able to get their hands on some types. Uzi being one. Uzi's were designed for warfare and extreme circumstances. It was designed as a fast action close quarters weapon, to be used by highly trained individuals. I have shot them, and yes, they are very hard to control if you do not employ proper technique and training.

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