Stolen food and water from cache box.

[DallinW]

I just got back from doing Oracle to Superior. We had left 4 gallons of water and a box of food with our names on it also stating that it was "Public After 01/03/2016" at the Kelvin Bridge cache box. When we got there, we discovered that all 4 gallons and half of the food was taken.

Now, I may have been naive leaving a box full of food closed with just boxing tape, but it doesn't make the person(s) who did this any less of an a**hole. I've learned my lesson, and I probably won't be using the cache boxes anymore, i'll either carry the extra food/water or cache it somewhere off the beaten path with GPS coords.

The suspicious thing was that when we cached the food and water a week earlier there was ~8 full gallons in there, and a bunch of near empties. ALL of the full gallons were taken from the box and only near empties were left. I have a hard time believing that those who actually use the trail would do something like this, but I may be wrong. Seems to me someone just happened to do a little exploring and found a bunch of free water and food. If this had happened at a more remote cache box like at Freeman Road, which we were heavily relying on, it might have been a bad situation.

We almost had to end our trip right there or walk into Kearny for more food because I didn't have enough to continue. Luckily a group of bikerpackers had just finished their trip when we got to the trailhead and offered us their food and water so we could keep going. I'm very grateful for that.

Just a word of warning for those who are thinking about using the boxes to cache goods. Don't get jacked like I did.

[wha]

If it was further south I'd suspect "undocumented immigrants". Not as easy to believe it was just someone out exploring (since they usually have a cooler full of beer). It is puzzling and disconcerting though. A SOBO hiker this fall had placed a bunch of water caches along the trail for his thru. Reading his journal was like a skipping record, "cache was gone... cache was gone... cache was gone".

[AZDigger]

After reading a post here about a couples plans to hike the AZ Trail, and the complexity of placing cached food/water and other supplies along their route, I wondered if theft was ever a problem? I guess you answered my question. Very unfortunate that this happens but I'm not surprised. On my first hike after a back injury three years ago, I was leap frogging water along a trail for my three day adventure as I couldn't carry the extra weight at the time. When I back tracked a ways on my last leg I found somebody had picked up my last gallon of cached water. I never saw any people on the trail but the foot prints were evidence enough. My hike was a bs thing after my injury to get back in shape, not 30 days on the AZ Trail. I can see however how the theft of one or more caches on a remote trail at a more critical time of year could leave an unsuspecting, unprepared hiker in a bad situation. I learned my lesson, I always have the supplies I need including water with me to complete my hike without the need of a cache. If reliable water sources aren't available along the trail, my hiking range is restricted to what I can carry. This limits my ability to explore many places where resources can be scarce. I'm curious as to what one should do if you encounter someone you suspect is raiding a cache? Ignore it and move on, or confront them and leave a cache for the local wildlife? Thanks to my faith in mankind, you probably won't find this old fool in the back country where cached supplies are a must.

[azbackpackr]

I'd suggest hiding it.

[SuperstitionGuy]

Provide about a half dozen brownies made with a heavy load of ex-lax for the thief to enjoy over and over again.
Just do not forget their purpose and eat them yourself.

[RowdyandMe]

@SuperstitionGuy
Just don't get them mix up with your magic brownies

[Sredfield]

We have put 8 of those boxes in, sure didn't see this kind of s#!t coming.

[azbackpackr]

@Sredfield
I wonder if they could be provided with a combination lock, and you give the combination out to people who contact you who are hiking the trail. Of course, if some vandal really wants in they'll bash the lock or the hasp, and then your box is damaged. So, I don't know...

[AZWanderingBear]

Along with the lock, add a game camera secreted nearby set for motion sensing. Provide the sheriff the photos and post them here as well. Nothing stops bad behavior like exposure (and jail time).

[autumnstars]

But I'm not sure it would actually be illegal to take anything from the box? The concept is that the contents are freely available to those (hikers) who need them. Yes, morals and decency dictate that you not take/use something clearly marked as someone else's.
Personally, I think it has something to do with a recent increase in ill-prepared hikers. The people who take other's caches probably think they are in an emergency, which excuses them in their own mind. The fact that the "emergency" is of their own making rarely occurs to them.
The unfortunate thing is that the well-prepared are the ones who suffer in the end. I would suggest hiding your personal caches fairly far off trail when necessary. And never absolutely count on finding water in any cache box.

[joebartels]

http://hikearizona.com/p.php?ID=62

[nonot]

A cache should be hidden if you want to ensure it's there when you need it, a public cache box is often used in places along major trails for "extra" stuff that's left over from people who don't want it or can't use it. It's unfortunate that people are stealing stuff marked specifically for pickup, but frankly in this day and age there are too great a percentage of fountain cleanser that steal stuff, so it isn't surprising it is happening.

[CannondaleKid]

@joe bartels
If the choice was valid, my response would be It depends...
Depending on why and where the caches were placed, I've hidden some and I've placed others in plain sight.

[AZWanderingBear]

@autumnstars

There is a huge difference between taking property that isn't yours and taking materials set out for public use. The original post said the box was marked with a specific person's name and then public after a certain date. Obviously this was personal property until that date. My comment even went further -- a locked supply box. Theft is theft. There is no gray area here. If it ain't yours and you take it, you are a thief and should be treated as one. Now if someone were in a survival situation, as many unprepared hikers seem to find themselves from time to time, and took someone else's supplies then it is still theft, but at least with a decent defense.

When you steal someone's cache you potentially put them in a bad situation, perhaps even life threatening. So then you go from being a thief to being a murderer. Bottomline: if it ain't yours and it ain't marked public leave it alone.

[rcorfman]

Along with the lock, add a game camera secreted nearby set for motion sensing. Provide the sheriff the photos and post them here as well. Nothing stops bad behavior like exposure (and jail time).

By secreted, I really hope you meant hidden.
Either way, the pictures would probably just be a bunch of equators.

[FOTG]

@AZ Wandering Bear

Autumnstars appears to be right on this one. Taking someone's food is certainly unethical and shady, but Its not illegal and it does not look like you will get much support from any law enforcement on this one

In fact, nearly every reference I found to caching in wilderness areas/national forests, seems to imply the act of leaving them in the woods in more illegal than taking them. After 24 hours its abandoned property, and essentially trash in the eyes of most forest service agencies from the sounds of it. I remember someone posted in the forum a few weeks ago about leaving some gallon jugs behind. It was certainly a nice gesture, but I have to be honest I cringed because I know those unused water jugs are ultimately just going to become forest trash, as even if someone uses them, they are most likely not going to carry out the empties and that seems to be the stance taken by rangers and forest service employees, unused/unclaimed cache=forest trash
(None of the regulations mentioned leaving stuff clearly marked at trailheads in designated bins, but it does appear from a legal standpoint, one is not going to get much support from law enforcement if they report a stolen cache)

n the Wilderness Area prohibitions:
36 CFR 261.16 (d) storing, caching or leaving unattended, equipment, personal property or
supplies for more than 24 consecutive hours.

36 CFR 261.10(e) abandoning any personal property. If property is left
unattended, it may be impounded. Some argue that caches are never abandoned, since the owner will eventually
return to check on its contents, but for our purposes, when it is left unattended it is
considered abandoned.

Many National Forest wilderness areas also have a Forest order prohibiting the
placement of caches with their boundaries

I think most would agree with the below suggestion for caching found on a backcountry wilderness page...

How do I know the water I hide will still be there when I need it?

Short answer: you don’t. Long answer: you hide it well enough that no one else will ever find it.

[DallinW]

n the Wilderness Area prohibitions:
36 CFR 261.16 (d) storing, caching or leaving unattended, equipment, personal property or
supplies for more than 24 consecutive hours.

36 CFR 261.10(e) abandoning any personal property. If property is left
unattended, it may be impounded. Some argue that caches are never abandoned, since the owner will eventually
return to check on its contents, but for our purposes, when it is left unattended it is
considered abandoned.

Many National Forest wilderness areas also have a Forest order prohibiting the
placement of caches with their boundaries

I think most would agree with the below suggestion for caching found on a backcountry wilderness page...

How do I know the water I hide will still be there when I need it?

Short answer: you don’t. Long answer: you hide it well enough that no one else will ever find it.

None of these areas are wilderness areas, in fact the majority of this segment lies outside any National Forests boundaries as well. Coming out of Oracle you leave Coronado NF and just before getting to Superior you enter Tonto NF. The trail doesn't go through any designated wilderness areas along this stretch. Not disagreeing with you about caching off the beaten path, just pointing that out.

[FOTG]

@DallinW
I know, I acknowledged that ;)

None of the regulations mentioned leaving stuff clearly marked at trailheads, or in designated bins

I do realize there are no THs located within wilderness areas and some of the caches are probably on trust land, or other non-federally designated areas...

Trust me I have no dog in fight and am not even against caches. I was just pointing out, that one is not likely to get any help from law enforcement on this issue...I would compare it to leaving a bag of Cheetos and a Pepsi in a plastic bag in a Phoenix city park with a note saying, "please do not eat, coming back for in a month." Not a lot of cops responding if someone eats your Cheetos and drinks your Pepsi

[AZDigger]

I'm going with Wandering Bear on this one. I don't care what the law says, if anyone molests a cache, and there is injury or death as a result of those stolen supplies, someone if identified will be prosecuted. Law enforcement or law breaker, it won't matter. No self respecting Ranger or responsible hiker would remove a cache contents for any reason other than an emergency. Those responsible for the theft of Wandering Bear's supplies are the same people who put graffiti on the walls at Pueblo Canyon, leave their trash on the trail, and destroy property. Those responsible will eventually run into a Wandering Bear somewhere out on the trail. God help them then because the laws won't.

[chumley]

Those responsible will eventually run into a Wandering Bear somewhere out on the trail. God help them then because the laws won't.